[78-L] Are we allowed to quote people in a book or article when they submit something to the group?
saag at telia.com
Sat Nov 24 04:52:59 PST 2012
For scientific work and news journalism Mike's principles apply, and are
even mandatory. But, fortunately, all writing doesn't qualify in those
categories- if it wouldn't be for popular writingmany subjects wouldn't
be known outside of the academies.
That goes for literary essays as well as for popularscience and
political columns. The purpose of those types of work isnot to prove a
case, but to get people interested in the subject, to tempt and,
sometimes, to provoke. And you can't tdo that with a billion of notes
So the advice given to Eric must dependon what kind of book he's writing.
In his novel "Oh, Play That Thing" Irish author Roddy Doyletells the
story of an Irishman coming to New Yorkin 1924 and, on one occasion,
hears Rudy Vallee sing on the radio. When I interviewed Roddy Doyleabout
the book I asked him if he was aware of the fact that 1924 would have
been a little early for Rudy Vallee, and he said: "Of course I am - but
it suited my purposes to have him on radio in 1924".
May the scholars grit their teeth...
But Eric, if it's a novel you're writing - forget about the quotes and
On 2012-11-24 04:55, Michael Biel wrote:
> To give my answer to Donna's original question, I usually allow my
> writings and postings to be used, with credit of course, although I like
> to be able to make corrections and updates on things I might have
> written decades ago. I think you asked me for something years ago and I
> agreed, but if I missed seeing a more recent request, let me know. As an
> educator (despite being retired) that is what I am here for! Credit is
> important. As a trained researcher I was taught that your writing is
> only as good as where you got your information from. EVERY fact and
> opinion in my dissertation is source identified. There are some books,
> such as those by Eric Barnouw, that I used as an index and finding aid
> to his sources because I found Barnouw to be a very unreliable
> interpreter of information. All scientific experiments must be
> repeatable, and the same is true of our historical research, so source
> identification is necessary.
> And as a researcher I do want credit for my research. I do get upset
> when I find what is obviously my research being used by an author as if
> it was theirs. That has happened, and in one notable case I did
> complain and thereafter have gotten wonderful credit from them. When I
> was getting photos of album covers for my pre-Steinweiss presentation I
> had so many names to credit that it took over a minute of time at the
> start of the talk. We don't do these things alone, and it actually was
> impressive that I had help from so many of you.
> Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: <gdkimball at cox.net>
> This has become a common practice in publishing, but I agree with the
> comments in this document from the American Musicological Society:
> Is there actually case law that supports the total ban on fair use of
> lyrics, or is it just the fear of going up against corporate lawyers
> that enforces the rule? For instance, the decision in Campbell v.
> Acuff-Rose Music held that use of lyrics in a parody was in fact
> I know, it's complicated.
> ---- Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com> wrote:
>> You need to get permission for quoting lyrics. There is no such thing as fair use when it comes to this. Publishers may grant gratis permission based on the circumstances, but permission of some sort must be received.
>> Cary Ginell
>> On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Bud Black <banjobud at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>> And what if someone posts the lyrics to a song?
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Nov 23, 2012, at 8:56 AM, <gdkimball at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Fair use has four "legs," so to speak. The ones that I can easily recall are 1. what is the commercial value of the work being used and the effect of use on it's value to the author 2. What is the amount of the work being used as a percentage of the whole; and 3. the nature of the use, i.e. commercial, educational, etc. Of course, all that is weighed in the real world, thus conventions and rules of thumb have arisen, like x number of words.
>>>> ---- Donna Halper <dlh at donnahalper.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/2012 10:53 PM, Mark Bardenwerper wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2012 6:49 AM, ERIC BYRON wrote:
>>>>>>> If somebody(ies) e-mails the discussion group with information that we would like to include in a book or article, is it permissible to quote them using their name? The reason I ask is that I have contacted a number of people whether I could include their statements in a book I hope to eventually finish. Only one person has not gotten back to me. I can certainly work around his statement, but the piece would sound better if I could include him.
>>>>> I generally get permission before using something, as a courtesy; I've
>>>>> even tracked people down by phone just to let them know I was gonna
>>>>> quote them. (As I understand it, all you need to do is make a
>>>>> good-faith effort to contact the person.) If all else fails, I was
>>>>> under the impression that anything under 250 words can be considered
>>>>> "fair use" and used without permission. And some scholars have also
>>>>> noted that there is no expectation of privacy on the internet, since
>>>>> even e-mails to a list-serv can be posted in digest form and read by
>>>>> non-list members, thus making them quotable to the general public.
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