[78-L] Black and Red Wax Pathe Records

[Han Enderman]

Now I know the series/cat.nrs reported before for these splash labels
from David Diehl's page

http://www.hensteeth.com/e_discog/chanticl.html,

I can add the following splash ranges from label images:

7503-7531.
A copy of 7539 is black, but - of course - may be a later (re)pressing. 
The 7500 series is the race series and 7539 is the last available label image. 
- 7503 Caroline Johnson, recd late Mar 1926;
- 7531 Kitty Waters, c.June 1927; 
- 7539 Dixie Jazzers Wb Bd, July 1927.
Ty's ODP does not list the 7500 race series.

25168-25214.
ODP lists the 25000 series.
25171/72 are the first 1926 recordings in the series, and thus not issued before ca. Mar 1926.
25215 is the last known issue in the normal range of the series, recd May 1927.

36417-36682.
36417 recd Mar 1926; 36682 recd Aug 1927.

So these splash labels were released ca. Apr 1926 - ca. Oct 1927.
Is an exact dating possible from known release dates?

Nice label pictures, Cliff !

han enderman
===
>>> Looking at label images in numerical order, I see the red splashes
appearing from 36417 on, on prob. all issues through 36682. 
Then it seems to be over.
(he)
-----

... found a black wax Pathe record with large red red 'splashes' throughout showing on both sides.
The catalog number is 36437/36437B.
(cliff bolling)
-----

I have a number of these and I had noticed that the wear factors of the
two colors are identical.  I've taken this to mean that the quality of
the less expensive brown Perfects to be the same as the black shellac of
the more expensive Pathe's and that the cheaper pressings were not of
lesser value.

But then at the bottom of the Discographer page that David Diehl linked to is this note:

"[The late] John R. T. Davies of England adds: In some instances in
examination and comparison the brown element of the mottled pressings
appears to be of more durable material than that found in many Perfects
(some of which are extremely soft and even crumbly)."

So, if the brown portion of the mottled discs are not the same as on
regular Perfects, maybe there is a worthwhile difference worth the price differential.
Any opinions?
Mike Biel
===

The E-Discographer #1 May, 2000 - 

One of the more unusual discs of the 1920's was put out by Pathé, which produced a variegated 

record that combined the usual black shellac with the orange-brown of its budget Perfect label. 

At first glance these might be mistaken for pieces of institutional linoleum and some collectors 

suspect they were accidents but the following item from Talking Machine World, June 15, 1926, 

shows they were intentional:

"In the record field the Pathe' Co. is now marketing a new record known as the Chanticleer. It is 
a mottled record. The conventional black of the Pathe' record has been replaced in this instance 
by a combination of black and maroon, which gives it an excellent display value."
Their striking looks did little for sales and these oddities, like most American Pathé laterals, are 
uncommon compared to identical performances released on the cheaper Perfects.

Details on the illustrated item are: 
Pathé 25207 
What does It Matter? (Irving Berlin) mx. 107422a
Cliff Edwards (Ukelele Ike)
B) I'm Back in Love Again (Cliff Friend) mx. 107418b 
Cliff Edwards (Ukelele Ike) and his Hot Combination 
---
I can only go by the notes on file cards...but I have five PA's 36480-36595, 
all variegated, as is 32239 (same issue date). All the earlier and later ones are black. 
BTW, does anyone know when Perfect changed to black wax? 
-Steven C. Barr 

I have listed only Cat.No. and recording date. All Pathes. 
7508 March, 1926 
36428 March, 1926 
36437 April,1926 
36486 July,1926 
Have had 7508 in the past as plain black wax. I'm fairly certain I've seen a 
copy of 36428 as well which was plain black. 
Four discs is hardly enough to use as a realistic sample,but they do all 
seem to be within a short period of time. 
-Joe Moore. 

-[The late] John R. T. Davies of England adds: In some instances in examination and comparison 
the brown element of the mottled pressings appears to be of more durable material than that found 
in many Perfects (some of which are extremely soft and even crumbly).
===
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