[78-L] Toscanini

[David Lennick]

Looks as if we just found mutual ground. Sibelius writes as if he has the DTs 
and nobody can take the pen out of his hand.

(Duck, Lennick!)

On 3/13/2012 5:34 PM, Philip Carli wrote:
> Well, it'd be fine with me. "Not fond" of Sibelius (take that as far as you want). And I'm solidly with Beecham's "I would give the whole of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos for Massenet's _Manon_ and think I had vastly profited by the exchange."  Now pillory me.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] on behalf of David Lennick [dlennick at sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:07 PM
> To: 78-L Mail List
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Toscanini
>
> KIDDING!
>
> dl
>
> On 3/13/2012 5:04 PM, Philip Carli wrote:
>> Oh well...
>> ________________________________________
>> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] on behalf of David Lennick [dlennick at sympatico.ca]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:50 PM
>> To: 78-L Mail List
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Toscanini
>>
>> Yup, nobody records nuttin' wit'out I give 'em the OK. That Siebeelius guy, he
>> ain't gonna make it.
>>
>> Hold it, we can do a deal on the Skaters thing with the guy from Hershey's.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> On 3/13/2012 4:41 PM, Philip Carli wrote:
>>>>    From what I remember reading, _he_ liked it.  Victor probably thought "ok...chestnut, but by Toscanini...probable seller."  Maybe they should have checked with you first.  PC
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] on behalf of David Lennick [dlennick at sympatico.ca]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:31 PM
>>> To: 78-L Mail List
>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Toscanini
>>>
>>> I still question why Toscanini would even record the thing. Victor could charge
>>> more for him than they could for Fiedler, but not after 1940. It's one of those
>>> pieces that I don't care if I ever hear by anyone, vintage or
>>> contemporary..like the Nutcracker Suite. Did his grandkids like it? Did he lose
>>> a bet?
>>>
>>> dl
>>>
>>> On 3/13/2012 4:24 PM, Philip Carli wrote:
>>>> There are several references to Toscanini at least partially reorchestrating LES PATINEURS I remember encountering, though I can't cite exactly where at the moment. As for simply adjusting it for a larger orchestra, the original orchestration is big to begin with, and, with an obvious unique exception, standard in Waldteufel dances: strings, double woodwind + piccolo, 4 horns, 2 cornets, 3 trombones, ophicleide or euphonium, tympani, side/bass drums, cymbals, triangle, and of course sleigh bells. (That's the Henry Litolff's Verlag set, which also assigned the piece its fictitious "op.183". When Litolff acquired Waldteufel publication rights, it started assigning its own opus nos. starting at op.100 and going up from there, with several big gaps.)
>>>>
>>>> Adding to this is that there is a little debate whether Waldteufel used an orchestrator to begin with, as he was a pianist and evidently composed at the piano initially.  I think not, myself, but that's me and my studies only.  I don't know of any Waldteufel holograph full scores.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, a bit of trivia: did you know Waldteufel was the earliest-born (1837) conductor to record?  A very few sides for French Gramophone that didn't last long in the catalogues. I've never heard them, but they're among my top things to track down.
>>>>
>>>> PC
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com [78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] on behalf of Don Cox [doncox at enterprise.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:26 AM
>>>> To: 78-L Mail List
>>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Toscanini
>>>>
>>>> Hello DAVID
>>>>
>>>> On 12/03/2012, DAVID BURNHAM wrote:
>>>>> Didn't Toscanini orchestrate "Skaters' Waltz"?
>>>>>
>>>> He performed it, but Waldteufel composed the piece for orchestra, so
>>>> there would be no need for an orchestral arrangement.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly minor adjustments for an orchestra bigger than Waldteufel's
>>>> own. But I see no mention of "arrangement" in RCA's booklet or in
>>>> Mortimer Frank's book.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> --
>>>> Don Cox
>>>> doncox at enterprise.net