[78-L] Highest Victor with a "patents" label

[Han Enderman]

Last available 5-line patents label image is 16831.
Last 3-line patents label image with short outer line is 17081 (Al Jolson).
The last (3-line) patents label I have seen is 17465.

han enderman
===
>>> Does anyone have information as to the highest known Victor catalogue number with 
the patents design? I'm asking primarily about the 17000 popular series that would have 
been in use at the time of the transition, but data regarding any of the domestic issues
is welcome. 
 
The subject of Victor's label transitions is certainly fascinating to many collectors, but
discussion has usually focused on batwing-to-scroll and scroll-to-circular; I haven't come
across a source that lists the highest patents (or earlier) designs for the various series.
In "The Collector's Guide to Victor Records" Michael Sherman cites the highest known
domestic batwing pressing as 20101 (an Irving Aaronson-George Olsen coupling recorded
in late June 1926 and issued in September). The highest domestic scroll that I've seen
in the regular series is 25635 (Tommy Dorsey, July 1937), but the Argentine branch
of Victor retained the scroll design quite a bit longer--at least up to May 1940 (see this
auction listing: http://tinyurl.com/44slqea). 
 
As for the highest domestic circular label, I've seen Ebay listings for 20-5745 (released
May 1954) that still had that design, but it might have been one of the last as Billboard
noted that the "New Orthophonic" phrase had been added to RCA Victor's June releases.
Canadian pressings retained the rings at least until Perry Como's "Catch a Falling Star"
(released 12/57; see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy89uF3DVoA). They used the 
full-colour Nipper label by the time of Neil Sedaka's "Oh, Carol" (released in Aug or Sep
1959; see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE6nUmkTJYg). 
 
-HA
=======
I seem to recall the highest I've seen was in the 17500s. Will need  
to look over my cache and see. I've got a scan of 17460 on Patents  
label (recorded 29 Sept 1913), and the change to Batwing was (so I  
understand) circa November 1914. (As for five-line-patents versus  
three-line, the latest five-line I have a scan for is 16803.)
------
My 20101 copy is a Scroll, but I have 20100 on  
Batwing. 20101 couples "Lucky Day" by George Olsen and His Music with  
"Black Bottom" by Johnny Hamp's Kentucky Serenaders. The Aaronson- 
Olsen coupling would be 20100 ("Katinka" by Olsen/"Hard-to-Get  
Gertie" by Aaronson). The two Olsen sides are from the same 30 June  
1926 session.

20102 is a Judge Sturdy's Orchestra coupling recorded 3 December  
1925. My copy's a Scroll, but I wonder if that might have been one of  
the final Batwings. Same for 20103 by Kelly Harrell and 20104 by  
Alfred Wallerstein (cellist). 20105 (Hamp/Jan Garber) is almost  
definitely an original Scroll issue (in US). Might even be the first--?!

> The highest domestic scroll that I've seen
> in the regular series is 25635 (Tommy Dorsey, July 1937), but the  
> Argentine branch
> of Victor retained the scroll design quite a bit longer--at least  
> up to May 1940 (see this
> auction listing: http://tinyurl.com/44slqea).

I've got 25636 (Mezz Mezzrow "Blues In Disguise"/"That Is How I Feel  
Today", 14 June 1937) on Scroll Swing Classic. As far as I can tell,  
the last Scroll issue was an album containing 25638/42; I've got  
25640 on Rings but the typesetting suggests to me it was spaced for  
the Scroll design (catalog number is closer to the label rim than the  
hole). I don't have 25637 (Victor Concert Orchestra coupling), but I  
do have 25643 (Jean Sablon) and it appears to be original on gold  
Rings. 25644 is a Benny Goodman Quartet coupling, and Russ Connor  
states 25634 (the previous Goodman number) was the final Scroll BG  
issue.

You're correct about Argentine Victor retaining the Scroll label.  
26788 and 26796 (Ellington) exist as Swing Classic Scrolls. Those are  
the latest numbers I've seen as Scrolls.

> As for the highest domestic circular label, I've seen Ebay listings  
> for 20-5745 (released
> May 1954) that still had that design, but it might have been one of  
> the last as Billboard
> noted that the "New Orthophonic" phrase had been added to RCA  
> Victor's June releases.

I have 20-5745 (Marilyn Monroe "I'm Gonna File My Claim"/"The River  
Of No Return") on what I refer to as the "RCA monogram" label (pre- 
New Orthophonic). Here at work, I don't know if there are any later  
than that, but by 20-5800 the "New Ortho" color-dog label was in use.  
My copy of 20-5767 (Vaughn Monroe) is New Ortho.

You didn't mention it, but the Victor monogram label (1943-46; before  
"RCA" was added to the brand name) runs from circa 20-1538 to  
20-1813. 20-1537's labels state "For best results use RCA Victor  
Needles" while 20-1538's (and those following) don't have the "RCA."  
20-1813 is the latest US "Victor" issue I've encountered in 42 years  
of collecting.

> Canadian pressings retained the rings at least until Perry Como's  
> "Catch a Falling Star"
> (released 12/57; see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy89uF3DVoA).

And many proclaim that the record is to be played at "78 R.P.M."; not  
usually seen on US issues.

Take care,
J. E. Knox "The Victor Freak"
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