[78-L] Burl Ives (was Double Response)

[Cary Ginell]

That's from the album "Songs for and About Men" (Decca DL-8125), a great LP (there was a companion one featuring women's songs). "The Harlem Man" was a calypso song that Ives heard when he was in the Caribbean. It was attributed to Sir Lancelot as "Shame and Sorrow," concerning an incestuous relationship between a woman and her brother, resulting in the woman becoming a zombie. It was written for the 1943 cult film "I Walked with a Zombie," in which Lancelot performs it and other songs throughout the film as a sort of a Greek chorus. Here's an excerpt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mna6IdRKRqA

Lord Melody did another version of the song with different verses in the 1940s. Sir Lancelot's version was recorded in 1946 for Keynote under the title "Scandal in the Family." I have a version by him that was issued on a 10-inch Mercury LP ("Sir Lancelot" - MG-25159) which may be the same one.

I heard a lot of folk songs for the first time from Ives' Decca "Men" album, like "Waltzing Matilda," "The Wild Rover," and "Ox Driver's Song." There are a few titles from the Mottola sessions on this album. I also loved "Down to the Sea in Ships," featuring sea shanties and folk songs. In reading Ives' testimony to the HUAC it appeared to me that he knew his career was on the line and he just wasn't willing to sacrifice it by not complying. I don't believe he was deliberately "turning in his friends" as many think now, but the folk community resented him and Josh White when both became commercially successful so there just wasn't any way they were going to win, no matter what they did. Even so, he did implicate his friends Pete Seeger and Will Geer, although both made peace with Ives in later years. 

Burl Ives was my first introduction to folk music - his voice was accessible to children as well as adults and he had a grandfatherly presence that was just comforting for a young kid like me. On my short list of "lost masters" that I would have loved to hear were the demos he recorded for Gennett in 1929. They were rejected and tests have never turned up.

Cary Ginell

> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:21:04 -0400
> From: dlennick at sympatico.ca
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Double response, "Answer Songs," question
> 
> Okay, he also did a not half bad version of Shame and Scandal in the Family, 
> titled The Harlem Man. (Why "The Harlem Man", I wonder?)
> 
> dl
> 
> On 7/31/2011 9:01 PM, Cary Ginell wrote:
> >
> > Not so fast there. Have you heard his 1953 Decca sessions with the Tony Mottola Sextet? Some of these, although commercially orchestrated, are really innovative and interesting. I especially like "Crawdad Song" (De 28935) which sounds like a Jack Fascinato arrangement with bongos, accordion, and electric guitar. The other side, unfortunately titled "Hound Dog" (not the Leiber/Stoller R&B number - can you imagine Ives doing that???) - which is actually the old vaudeville number "Ya Gotta Quit Kickin' My Dawg Aroun'" has some jazzy teeth whistling throughout (Gerry Teifer??). Don't get me wrong, I have conniption fits when I hear "Little Bitty Tear" and "Holly Jolly Xmas," but sheesh, the guy wasn't all bad after 1950.
> >
> > Cary Ginell
> >
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:18:23 -0400
> >> From: dlennick at sympatico.ca
> >> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> >> Subject: Re: [78-L] Double response, "Answer Songs," question
> >>
> >> Also, he'd gone commercial before the HUAC era. Granted, so had the Weavers,
> >> but reluctantly.
> >>
> >> But A Little Bitty Tear is PURE F*****G GARBAGE and Holly Jolly Christmas just
> >> sets my teeth on edge, as does everything the guy sang after 1950.
> >>
> >> Quick, somebody say something nice about Leonard Bernstein so I can direct my
> >> venom elsewhere.
> >>
> >> dl
> >>
> >> On 7/31/2011 8:09 PM, Cary Ginell wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I read the transcript of his testimony before the HUAC when I was researching the Naxos CD I annotated (and that D.L. mastered) and it isn't as horrible as one might think. I think the fact that he testified at all and answered questions honestly is what ticked off the folk music community. His testimony was much more flammable than that of Josh White, who really didn't say anything bad about anyone, yet was blackballed also only because he cooperated.
> >>>
> >>> Cary Ginell
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:45:33 -0400
> >>>> From: dlennick at sympatico.ca
> >>>> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Double response, "Answer Songs," question
> >>>>
> >>>> Sheesh, isn't anybody offended by what I just wrote about Ives? I would be, if
> >>>> I liked him (which obviously I don't and never have).
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh well.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 7/31/2011 1:31 PM, David Lennick wrote:
> >>>>> Would "Purple People Eater Meets the Witch Doctor" count?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I didn't know about Tex..Burl Ives also recorded that thing (as his descent
> >>>>> into worse than mediocrity continued unabated, but he was a rat bastard
> >>>>> informer anyway).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> dl
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 7/31/2011 1:08 PM, Dennis Flannigan wrote:
> >>>>>> The Tex Williams' recording, "CLOSE THE DOOR RICHARD (I Just Saw the
> >>>>>> Thing)", got me thinking. It's the only answer song that I know responding
> >>>>>> to two different originals -- "Open the Door, Richard," and, "The Thing,"
> >>>>>> from the early 1950s. Or is it? That's my question.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Are there other, double song answer songs? Seems likely, but can't think of
> >>>>>> any. Thank you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dennis
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