[78-L] Greta Keller LMS Question

Sun Aug 15 13:14:03 PDT 2010

>From part of the thread below:
>> Decca DID make arrangements (or use pre-
>> 1946 matrices?!) to create a series intended to compete with Victor's
>> "Red Seal" series(ses) and its Columbia equivalent...?!
>>
>> There WERE 20***/25*** Deccas, which drew from the above series;
>> these series ended c.1935-36, when Decca realized there was more
>> money to be made in non-classical trcordings...!  Steven C. Barr

In fact that series probably STARTED around 1936 or '37, maybe earlier..when I find my first Gramophone Shop Encyclopedia (1937?) I'll see how many titles turn up in it. It was definitely still in print in the early 40s but was probably deleted when the shellac shortage became critical. I have (somewhere) one Gramophone Shop supplement which lists the titles still available "while supplies last". It was an odd series in that it duplicated material still in the Columbia catalogs, with both deriving their masters from Odeon-Parlophone through their respective connections.

Very few of the 20000s and 25000s seem to have been pressed in Canada. Some, not many, are in the 1942 catalog.

dl

> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:16:27 -0400
> From: mbiel at mbiel.com
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Greta Keller LMS Question
> 
> On 8/15/2010 9:07 AM, David wrote:
> > Odd..according to the Decca books, 39640/1 are unknown. 39631/2 are Irene
> > Bordoni on Decca white label S-1 (which I have, but not handy to check the
> > disc) and 39633 is unknown. Rust shows 39632 and 39634.
> > dl
> >
> 
> Interesting. Just yesterday over on ARSC-List I had a discussion with 
> Michel Ruppli about the comments made here in March about what was 
> missing in the Decca books. Since it is germain to this discussion and 
> I had used material from the 78-L, here is a reprint of the reply from 
> Ruppli (pun intended!!) and the summary of the discussion I had posted:
> 
> Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> From: michel.ruppli at ORANGE.FR
> 
> Re my Decca books,I have not got any access to Decca original ledgers 
> and based my work on available listings and on MCA Catalogue, which was 
> a mine but was not complete nor free of errors.
> I confess my greatest error is the confusion I made between the two 
> KAPP brothers!!! I had not digged into the KAPP label history at that 
> time....
> I deliberately left some parts of foreign material aside, as I was not 
> sure they had been issued on records produced by US Decca. This includes 
> some 20,000 records and ethnic material: information I had on those 
> series was limited to a few artists and too far from completion for 
> being valuably listed.
> I have not detected custom matrix numbers used by Decca for Commodore 
> or Keynote label in the early 40s (mx numbers similar to the Decca ones 
> on those labels do not fit the Decca mx. sequence). By the way, my goal 
> was not to list all labels having been produced by Decca at one time or 
> the other.
> Well, none is perfect and I have stockpiled huge lists of 
> additions/corrections to the books!!
> Michel Ruppli
> --------
> Le 15 août 10 à 04:35, Michael Biel a écrit :
> 
> >
> > On 8/14/2010 9:29 PM, Steven C. Barr wrote:
> >> From: "Michael Biel" <mbiel at MBIEL.COM>
> >>> Michael Biel wrote:
> >>> >> Decca has been thoroughly documented by Michel Ruppli in his 
> >>> published
> >>> >> discography set, although I do recall there being one sector of
> >>> classical
> >>> >> releases of imported masters that I wasn't able to find.
> >>> On 8/14/2010 3:29 AM, Michel RUPPLI wrote:
> >>>> Michael has well reported on going work on Columbia and Victor 
> >>>> labels, as well as my past work on Decca label***
> >>>> *** Mike: all Decca imports were included in my Decca Discography - 
> >>>> Vol. 5 pages 631-736.
> >>>
> >> Point beingt that the Decca(US) ledgers still exist (I'm not sure in 
> >> their
> >> entirety?!).
> >
> > Unless they were caught up in the Universal Studios warehouse fire. 
> > Nobody is telling us
> >
> >> And, yes, Decca(US) DID make arrangements (or use pre-
> >> 1946 matrices?!) to create a series intended to compete with Victor's
> >> "Red Seal" series(ses) and its Columbia equivalent...?!
> >>
> >> There WERE 20***/25*** Deccas, which drew from the above series;
> >> these series ended c.1935-36, when Decca realized there was more
> >> money to be made in non-classical trcordings...! Steven C. Barr
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yes I would assume that a series that you say ended in 1935-36 did use 
> > "pre-1946 matrices". And these were the series which Lennick and I 
> > discuss later on in this posting. We know they exist, we are 
> > wondering if they are included somewhere in the book that we hadn't 
> > spotted.
> >
> > Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com
> >
> >>
> >>> Does it include issues in catalog number series 20000 and 25000? 
> >>> This came up in March on the 78-L because I only have your volume 6 
> >>> -- the numerical catalog number index -- while David Lennick has the 
> >>> whole set. He brought this up, I assume while referring to Vol 5. 
> >>> He mentions a 10-inch 20000 and 12-inch 25000 Decca Odeon-Parlophone 
> >>> series which also used some English Decca masters. Volume 6 shows 
> >>> these numbers only being reused for a short-lived Plays series 
> >>> (Death of a Salesman and The Council) and a popular Special Series 
> >>> respectively. The ones he was talking about were:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> ...cheap red label classical and some Ethnic. "Sounds of
> >>>>>>> the Orient" (exact title?) was in that series. Handel's 
> >>>>>>> Concerti Grossi nos.
> >>>>>>> 1-3 conducted by Boyd Neel were on 25655/67, Walton's Symphony 
> >>>>>>> was on 25600/5,
> >>>>>>> a couple of Betove's records were in the 20000s. No albums 
> >>>>>>> provided. Several
> >>>>>>> of these and the 10-inch 20000 series were still in the 1943 
> >>>>>>> catalog.
> >>>
> >>> I replied:
> >>>>>> The 1941 POPULAR catalog shows the 20000 and
> >>>>>> 25000 series in the price list on the inside front cover but 
> >>>>>> doesn't
> >>>>>> list them in the catalog, along with most of the ethnic series 
> >>>>>> such as
> >>>>>> Irish, Mexican, Scotch, Race, West Indian, and Hill Billy. 
> >>>>>> Except for a
> >>>>>> few of these that are numbered in the regular popular series -- 
> >>>>>> mostly
> >>>>>> for inclusion in an album -- those are in separate catalogs.
> >>>
> >>> I also mentioned several other numerical series numbers which had 
> >>> been reused and both are included in your book, such as the two K- 
> >>> children's series and the two 29000 series.
> >>>
> >>> Lennick also noted:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> Ruppli also didn't list any of the Decca custom matrix numbers
> >>>>>>> used for Commodore, Keynote and private labels in the early 40s
> >>>>>>> ..maddening, since he did list some that were used in the 30s
> >>>>>>> for Liberty Music Shops.
> >>>
> >>> While we are at it, I found a few items in the preface to Vol 6 that 
> >>> need correction:
> >>>
> >>>> "After the war, a new peak in activity occurred. Decca purchased
> >>>> material from the Signature lanel and started reissuing vintage 
> >>>> material
> >>>> from Brunswick, using a revised Brunswick logo."
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure of the date of Signature material, but the Brunswick 
> >>> series began during the 1942 strike,in response to the Columbia 
> >>> reissues Avakian was doing. Didn't Milt Gabler do these? You then 
> >>> mention Coral and Vocalion as being started at the same time (after 
> >>> the war) but since Brunswick reissues had started in 1942, this is 
> >>> wrong. Besides. these labels came about quite a bit after the war, 
> >>> closer to 1950.
> >>>
> >>> But the biggest error is this:
> >>> "In the meantime, Jack Kapp, who had headed the label since the
> >>> beginning, resigned to form his own company and produce recordings 
> >>> under
> >>> the Kapp label (not included in this set)."
> >>>
> >>> Jack Kapp DIED suddenly on March 28, 1949 at the age of 48. His 
> >>> brother DAVE Kapp was the one who resigned a few years later and 
> >>> formed Kapp Records in 1954.
> >>>
> >>> Relative small, but nagging problems, is such a great work!
> >>>
> >>> Mike Bielmbiel at mbiel.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack Raymond"<jraymond at alumni.princeton.edu>
> > To: "78-L List"<78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:42 AM
> > Subject: [78-L] Greta Keller LMS Question
> >
> >
> >> Does anyone on the List happen to have a copy of Liberty Music Shop
> >> L-183 Greta Keller: Midnight Breeze/Where Are You? In my numerical list
> >> of LMS records I show the matrix numbers as 39632-B and 39634-B
> >> respectively; but I've just been told that those numbers were used
> >> elsewhere and that the numbers for LMS-183 are probably 39640 and 39641.
> >> Can anyone confirm this?
> >>
> >> -- Jack Raymond
> >>
> 
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