[78-L] Columbia sublabels [was MGM-Supertone connection?]

Wed Jul 7 05:39:05 PDT 2010

Slowly the discographical clouds are clearing up (if that is correct English).
I also tried to find the sources for the statement, and having found the M-G-M ebay item,
I looked it up in ADBD & Rust-JR and saw the mention of both Columbia -P issues.
Checking my Supertone label images, it became evident that the Supertone 1000-S series 
is a very different SMALL series (highest available cat.nr 1026-S).

On Ty's site I checked the Columbia labels, but not Supertone, since 1076-P couldn't be
a Supertone (wrong suffix; cat.nr too high).
To answer the question, TY has the incorrect label name.

Ty is mixing up 2 Columbia 1000 series for client labels:
he uses the heading for the Supertone 1000-S (Straus & Schram) series to list the 
[Columbia] 1000/2000-P series (Special Record/M-G-M/Publix).
There is no mixing up of both series, AFAIK. All issues listed are the real -P releases.

>From images (all suffixed -P):
- [Columbia] Special Record 1001/02/03/08/11/12/13/36/77/86.
- M-G-M 1010/30/32/33/35/38/73/74/75/76/78/79/81/84/88/90/92/93.
- Publix 1015/17/19/23/40/41/47/55/56/58/62/63/65; 2008/19/20.
Note that 1010-P has a different red-blue label (see ARLIE), called "The MGM RECORD".
Many issues I have never seen, but 1001/32/58/78 are relatively common.

Han Enderman
===
>>> Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. wrote:

> Sorry for being think in the head. You mean, the online database here
> http://www.78discography.com/SPTCol.htm
> has incorrect label numbers?

Finally, at long last, you tell us where you got the listing from.  If 
you had told us in the first posting that you were comparing a photo of 
a Metro Goldwyn Mayer 1076-P on Ebay with this page, we could have told 
you and Ty that this page is all screwed up.  This is NOT a listing of 
Supertone -S (Spt).  This IS a listing of  Columbia -P SR Special Record 
(Client  Labels).  The actual labels are all mixed together here.  The 
Metro Goldwyn Mayer 1076-P you were looking at is the SAME 1076-P on 
this list.  It is NOT Supertone.  Ty is the one who misread the Rust 
list of abbreviations.  So you are excused from being confused.  We 
didn't realize you weren't using a real discography. 

Guys, we need to help Ty.  First of all, Ty, change the title of this 
page.  Second, we need to check our records and tell Ty which label goes 
with which number.

To start, 1076-P is Metro Goldwyn Mayer, as is 1084-P.  1047-P is Publix. 

So everybody check their records and help Ty out.  This is yet another 
example of how a Rust short-cut can screw things up.

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com 

Michael Biel wrote:
>> Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. wrote:
>>
>>> Han Enderman wrote:
>>>       
>>>> I assume that the original reference to Supertone is a reading error.
>>>> ....
>>>>
>>>> There was a short Supertone 1000-S series made by Columbia for Strauss & Schram.
>>>> This is different from the Co Special/Publix/M-G-M series.
>>>>         
>>> That is the one where 1076P correlates with the Joyce song. No flip is 
>>> listed, though.  
>>>     
>> Since the Columbia-manufactured Supertone had an -S suffix, it cannot be 
>> 1076-P.  As Han said, Rust used SR to mean (Columbia) Special Record.  
>> Notice the capitol R.  That means it is a new word.  Supertone is Spt.  
>> Read the Index of Abbreviations. Han is correct.  It was a reading 
>> error.  Those two abbreviations are consecutive in that list.
>>
>> No flip is listed because the client labels often had different 
>> performers on the flip sides.  You have to go to their listings.
<<<
===
ORIGINAL DISCUSSION (fragments):

I assume that the original reference to Supertone is a reading error.
Rust (JR & ADBD) lists only 2 Teddy Joyce titles, ...Sam/Gotta..., 
on Har 1009-H and SR 1072-P, and Gotta also on SR 1076-P.
Apparently SR was interpreted as Supertone, instead of (Columbia) Special Record.
So there is no relation between Supertone and (old) M-G-M & Publix.

The odd thing is that Rust does not attempt to show the real label names, but uses the
general identification "SR".
I have numerous label images in the (Co) 1000-P series, and have found no numerical 
duplicates on these client labels. 
There seems to be a single 1xxx-P series, with each cat.nr used only on a single client label.
First known (to me) is Special Record 1001-P Desert Song by Bar Harbor Soc Orch.,
which was issued in a special sleeve stating 'Desert Song / Theatre Special'.
1076-P (Gotta Feelin'For You, as by 'The CAPITOLIANS'; reverse unknown) is on M-G-M, 
and thus pres. 1072-P is on another label (I do not have an image of 1072-P).
There also was a Publix 2000 series (why?). E.g., 2008-P (mx 149616) I Have To Have You, by
The Paramounteers, A. Hanshaw-v.

Is there a numerical list of this 1000/2000-P series?

I have NO image of Har 1009-H, and assume it is rare. Of the same coupling on VT 2009-V 
I have both east coast & west coast label images. 
Since Rust lists 1009-H only, is there a possibility that 1009-H is unissued? I also have never seen 
Diva 3009-G. 
Note that 1012-H/2012-V/3012-G by Annette Hanshaw (Tip-Toe/What Wouldn't I Do For That Man)
is common on all 3 labels.

Julian, which issues are listed in the new ADBD for these 2 Joyce titles?

There was a short Supertone 1000-S series made by Columbia for Strauss & Schram.
This is different from the Co Special/Publix/M-G-M series.
- Han Enderman
---
>>> I am searching on an MGM disk on Ebay with an MGM label, performed by 
Teddy Joyce and the Capitolians (Capitol Theater Orchestra, Broadway 
NY). The number, 1076P, coincides with a Supertone by Teddy Joyce and 
the Penn State Rec.(?) Is this that same recording and is there a connection between these 2 labels?
I look in MGM in the online database and those 4 digit numbers don't show up.
- Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr.
---
This label is actually properly called Metro Goldwyn Mayer and is a Columbia client label, similar to Paramount Publix and "Special Record"..material usually from the same sources, mostly Harmony, often by the Golden Gate Orchestra (aka California Ramblers). There shouldn't be any connection with Supertone other than the same artists probably having recorded for both labels.
dl
---
Okay..one side of this disc is also on Harmony 1009-H and [Client Label] 1072-P, "Gotta Feelin' For You". The other Teddy Joyce side (on 1009H and 1072P) that's in the Columbia Books is "Collegiate Sam" but not shown as being on 1076-P. Date is September 11, 1929.
dl
---
The 1###-P series was used by Columbia for any/all "private label" issues of Harmony-derived sides.
There was, IIRC, a "Supertone" (non-Sears) label which carried these 1###-P numbers?!
(barr)
---
Not played in the theaters, SOLD in the theaters...
(mb)
--
This Teddy Joyce is a great record.  In my experience,  it's been hard to 
find a copy which does not have some buzzed-out highs on both sides.
I've owned a half-dozen copies over the years,  all on Velvet Tone...sort of 
an odd coincidence.
Taylor Bowie
---
The new ADBD only identifies JD. Not sure if I have "Collegiate Sam" on a Sunbeam LP
Julian Vein
---
> which issues are listed in the new ADBD for these 2 Joyce titles?
Har 1009-H, Diva 3009-G & MGM 1076-P (The Capitolians).
(j.vein)
===