[78-L] Miles Davis etc [was Thelonious Monk [was Leonard

[Jeff Sultanof]

Julian,

When you say you have the complete Miles on Columbia on CD, which set are
you talking about? There was so much Miles that Columbia had that they broke
up their holdings into several sets: one with Coltrane, one with Gil Evans,
one with just "In a Silent Way," etc. Unless Columbia put all of these
together and is selling them in one big box, which is possible, but I'm not
aware of it.

Van Gelder's big band recordings from the sixties would get an F from me if
I were teaching recording; they are distorted and poorly balanced. He is
also a bit of a nut; he has been known to throw out clients if they do
things he doesn't like. I met him once and told him that I loved his CTI
quadraphonic recordings, and he beamed, inviting me back to any session I
wanted to come to. His later recordings ca. 1970s and later are much better
than his earlier recordings, and the quads were among the best of the era.

I happen to think that the Gil Evans albums with Miles are among the
masterpieces of music in the twentieth century. I admit I have a special
relationship with this music; I was one of the first to see the scores and
parts of these albums when Miles' possessions were gotten out of storage,
and a colleague was asked to appraise three boxes of Miles' music. The Evans
scores were among the most transcribed big band arrangements until they were
found in these boxes. Also found were parts of most of the pieces of the
Davis nonet, called The Birth of the Cool.

I understand there is a growing minority led by Stanley Crouch who believe
these four albums are nothing more than 'easy listening' music, but I wonder
about them.

Sorry, I've just realized this is very OT, but the subject of Miles did come
up.

Jeff Sultanof

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Julian Vein
<julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk>wrote:

> Geoffrey Wheeler wrote:
> > Discussing Miles Davis’ work on various labels in the 1950s and early
> > ’60s, he says of Davis’ Columbia recordings: “Davis's Columbia work was
> > OK ...” The Institute of Jazz Studies has a recorded extended interview
> > with Rudy Van Gelder in which Van Gelder discusses at length the
> > difference between his recording methods for Blue Note and Prestige and
> > those of Columbia where Davis is concerned. He disagreed with
> > Columbia’s approach to micing and other recording details, especially
> > that of “sound.” I bought Davis’ first Columbia LP with great
> > expectations but was somewhat disappointed with the results. Compared
> > with his Prestige performances, these were rather tepid. I have on tape
> > an alternate take of Davis and Coltrane doing “Bye Bye Blackbird” which
> > is hilarious. It’s just one mistake after another. Only the rhythm
> > section seems to know what it is doing. I have no idea if this take was
> > ever issued, and, if so, on what compilation. My interest was only in
> > the original LP albums.
> ========================
> I have the Miles Davis complete CD set on Columbia--just been playing a
> few and agree about the weak sound. Strange, because contemporary
> sessions had full sounds, like the Buck Clayton Jam Sessions and Eddie
> Condon. The "Bye Bye Blackbird" may well be on the CD set.
>
> Van Gelder's recording techniques continue to raise ire to this day. He
> sacrificed natural ambiance for a
> "let's-hear-all-the-instruments-equally" approach. He was also
> parsimonious with regard to capturing the full sound of the double bass.
>
> Criticisms I've heard:
>
> "You can't hear the bass."
> "He's OK, but he doesn't know how to record a piano."
> "You can't hear the drums properly."
> "He uses microphone, rather than studio ambiance."
> "He sticks in reverb."
>
> His efforts for Savoy are more natural.
>
> Fortunately for him, he recorded much quality music, so that we can
> ignore his faults to some extent.
>
> I've noticed that in his recent remastering of his early work, the
> results are often much fuller than the originals. Unfortunately, there's
> little that can be done with his knob twiddling on the Miles Davis "Bags
> Groove" session!
>
> Is the interview available?
>
>       Julian Vein
>
>
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