[78-L] 78rpm speed

Fri Feb 26 09:07:54 PST 2010

1934 was the date that the Thesaurus series debuted, not the 16" 33.3 
format. Doh.....

A momentary (yea, rite, momentary) brain fart.

js

Michael Biel wrote:
> In 1929 E.C. Raynor's Bureau of Broadcasting advertised comparisons of 
> their 16-inch 33 ETs with the other companies' 78s.  I don't know where 
> Joe got the 1934 date from except from the introduction of the Presto 
> Disc in that year.
> 
> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
> 
> David Lennick wrote:
>> 33RPM ETs date from at least 1931..I've had several. I think the Philco 
>> Symphony Orchestra programs date from 1930 and these are 16-inch, running only 
>> 9-10 minutes a side (same length as soundtrack discs).
>>
>> The ARSC Journals online list a lot of 33RPM discs cut by Victor between 1931 
>> and '34, and even 3 discs cut at 16RPM. Educational, promotional, radio use as 
>> well as the issued PTs.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com wrote:
>>   
>>> Thanks Mike. Interesting, b'cast tables were 2 speeds from the early 
>>> 30s, which pre-dates ETs (1934 I believe, which I would call mid-30s). 
>>> Why a 33 speed in the early 30s, assuming you mean 1930-1933? Would 
>>> there have been a reason to play a soundtrack on the air?
>>>
>>> joe salerno
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Biel wrote:
>>>     
>>>> Broadcast turntables were dual speed from the early 30s, and there were 
>>>> some dual speed tables for home use when the Program Transcription came 
>>>> out at that same time, and there were some school use of ETs in the late 
>>>> 30 thru the 40s so there were dual speed tables in schools as well.  (I 
>>>> have the ETs that were still in my high school when I was on the AV 
>>>> squad in the early 60s.  I asked for them as soon as they threw out the 
>>>> only 16-inch player!)  But I think the terminology was usually 
>>>> "Standard" and either LP or ET, when referring to the Program 
>>>> Transcriptions or Electrical Transcriptions.  Of course, short 
>>>> recordings were sometimes cut on ETs at 78, so perhaps broadcasters 
>>>> would call them "78 ETs".   When the Columbia Lp and the 45 came out, 
>>>> this was the first time broadcasters also had to worry about stylus size 
>>>> as well as speed, so "microgroove 33s" or "ET 33s"   might have entered 
>>>> their lingo.   When Decca started to issue records and albums on all 
>>>> three speeds, the number was the designator on the sleeves, on the back 
>>>> of the jackets, and in the catalog.  RCA emphasized "45" immediately 
>>>> from the very beginning.  They were always called "forty-fives".  They 
>>>> could have been called "Standard", "forty-five", and "Long playing", but 
>>>> I bet that once RCA ALWAYS used the designation of the speed number, 
>>>> that was the clincher for 78, 45, and 33.  In looking thru a lot of 
>>>> original publications from the mid 30s to early 40s, I don't recall any 
>>>> mention of 78 or 78s.  But as I write my script I will now make careful 
>>>> note for you of any time I might see these designations. 
>>>>
>>>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com 
>>>>
>>>> neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>       
>>>>> True, there were other speeds, but did the average home user of 
>>>>> phonograph records know about radio transcriptions and movie 
>>>>> soundtracks? I doubt that the average record buyer knew that Edison had 
>>>>> attempted an LP format at 300 or whateveritwas LPI. I think that most 
>>>>> likely, as stated, records were either standard (what we call a "78") or 
>>>>> something else, like the early LP attempts, which go back to cylinder 
>>>>> days. "Long playing" options would be the variation from the norm, but 
>>>>> even this is not correct. Motion pic soundtracks were only, to my 
>>>>> knowledge, recorded at 33 1/3, so that was the norm for that format. I 
>>>>> believe I've seen some ETs that were produced for classroom use, or 
>>>>> maybe could be used for either broadcast or classroom use. Or maybe they 
>>>>> repurposed ETs for distribution to classrooms to make more money. Home 
>>>>> recordings and ETs would be the place to find different speeds 
>>>>> available. So rephrasing the question, when did home players with 2 
>>>>> speeds (78 & 33) become common enough to be recognized by the consumer 
>>>>> for what they were? Late 40s to my knowledge. When did 33.3 become 
>>>>> common enough to be used in classrooms for audio visual presentations 
>>>>> (assuming my premise to be correct)? Can someone point to a catalog and 
>>>>> say 'this is the first example of a classroom record player with 33 
>>>>> speed on it'. Again, for consumer awareness, I'm thinking late '40s. 
>>>>> Maybe Mike Biel can answer this. (I assume that  players for radio 
>>>>> stations had 2 speeds from the beginning of the ET era).
>>>>>
>>>>> joe salerno
>>>>>
>>>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>> But since the slow speed (33 1/3 RPM) was in use as early as 1926 for sync 
>>>>>> soundtrack discs and radio stations were playing discs of both speeds after 
>>>>>> 1931 and 33RPM "Program Transcriptions" were marketed by RCA Victor that same 
>>>>>> year, the answer has to be a lot earlier, even if the general public didn't 
>>>>>> have reason to refer to "78s" till 1948..even then, the term "standard" 
>>>>>> remained popular for quite a while. The introduction of the "45" probably 
>>>>>> heralded the general use of speed designations. Lacquer discs, both studio and 
>>>>>> for home use, usually had boxes to check "78" and "33" on the labels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Royal Pemberton wrote:
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>> I'd say following the advent of the LP and the 45, so circa 1948/1949.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:34 AM, <L78rpm at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> When, please, were the objects primarily associated with this list  first
>>>>>>>> called "78s"?   This seems a reasonable question, I believe,  given the
>>>>>>>> adjustable speed mechanisms on early disc machines, and the suggestion
>>>>>>>>  that some
>>>>>>>> brands should be played at 80rpms (or something other than  78).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paul Charosh
>>>>>>>>   
> 
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