[78-L] 78rpm speed

[Michael Biel]

David Lennick wrote:
> Standard seems to have started up in '34. I don't know about World and 
> Thesaurus. And MacGregor (with or without Solly, dat guy is alvays late) must 
> have been earlier than that.
>
> dl
>
>   

Those are just the music library services.  World was doing recorded 
programs back in1929.  Same with MacGregor and Ingram.

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
> Michael Biel wrote:
>   
>> In 1929 E.C. Raynor's Bureau of Broadcasting advertised comparisons of 
>> their 16-inch 33 ETs with the other companies' 78s.  I don't know where 
>> Joe got the 1934 date from except from the introduction of the Presto 
>> Disc in that year.
>>
>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
>>
>> David Lennick wrote:
>>     
>>> 33RPM ETs date from at least 1931..I've had several. I think the Philco 
>>> Symphony Orchestra programs date from 1930 and these are 16-inch, running only 
>>> 9-10 minutes a side (same length as soundtrack discs).
>>>
>>> The ARSC Journals online list a lot of 33RPM discs cut by Victor between 1931 
>>> and '34, and even 3 discs cut at 16RPM. Educational, promotional, radio use as 
>>> well as the issued PTs.
>>>
>>> dl
>>>
>>> neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Thanks Mike. Interesting, b'cast tables were 2 speeds from the early 
>>>> 30s, which pre-dates ETs (1934 I believe, which I would call mid-30s). 
>>>> Why a 33 speed in the early 30s, assuming you mean 1930-1933? Would 
>>>> there have been a reason to play a soundtrack on the air?
>>>>
>>>> joe salerno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Biel wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> Broadcast turntables were dual speed from the early 30s, and there were 
>>>>> some dual speed tables for home use when the Program Transcription came 
>>>>> out at that same time, and there were some school use of ETs in the late 
>>>>> 30 thru the 40s so there were dual speed tables in schools as well.  (I 
>>>>> have the ETs that were still in my high school when I was on the AV 
>>>>> squad in the early 60s.  I asked for them as soon as they threw out the 
>>>>> only 16-inch player!)  But I think the terminology was usually 
>>>>> "Standard" and either LP or ET, when referring to the Program 
>>>>> Transcriptions or Electrical Transcriptions.  Of course, short 
>>>>> recordings were sometimes cut on ETs at 78, so perhaps broadcasters 
>>>>> would call them "78 ETs".   When the Columbia Lp and the 45 came out, 
>>>>> this was the first time broadcasters also had to worry about stylus size 
>>>>> as well as speed, so "microgroove 33s" or "ET 33s"   might have entered 
>>>>> their lingo.   When Decca started to issue records and albums on all 
>>>>> three speeds, the number was the designator on the sleeves, on the back 
>>>>> of the jackets, and in the catalog.  RCA emphasized "45" immediately 
>>>>> from the very beginning.  They were always called "forty-fives".  They 
>>>>> could have been called "Standard", "forty-five", and "Long playing", but 
>>>>> I bet that once RCA ALWAYS used the designation of the speed number, 
>>>>> that was the clincher for 78, 45, and 33.  In looking thru a lot of 
>>>>> original publications from the mid 30s to early 40s, I don't recall any 
>>>>> mention of 78 or 78s.  But as I write my script I will now make careful 
>>>>> note for you of any time I might see these designations. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com 
>>>>>
>>>>> neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>>>> True, there were other speeds, but did the average home user of 
>>>>>> phonograph records know about radio transcriptions and movie 
>>>>>> soundtracks? I doubt that the average record buyer knew that Edison had 
>>>>>> attempted an LP format at 300 or whateveritwas LPI. I think that most 
>>>>>> likely, as stated, records were either standard (what we call a "78") or 
>>>>>> something else, like the early LP attempts, which go back to cylinder 
>>>>>> days. "Long playing" options would be the variation from the norm, but 
>>>>>> even this is not correct. Motion pic soundtracks were only, to my 
>>>>>> knowledge, recorded at 33 1/3, so that was the norm for that format. I 
>>>>>> believe I've seen some ETs that were produced for classroom use, or 
>>>>>> maybe could be used for either broadcast or classroom use. Or maybe they 
>>>>>> repurposed ETs for distribution to classrooms to make more money. Home 
>>>>>> recordings and ETs would be the place to find different speeds 
>>>>>> available. So rephrasing the question, when did home players with 2 
>>>>>> speeds (78 & 33) become common enough to be recognized by the consumer 
>>>>>> for what they were? Late 40s to my knowledge. When did 33.3 become 
>>>>>> common enough to be used in classrooms for audio visual presentations 
>>>>>> (assuming my premise to be correct)? Can someone point to a catalog and 
>>>>>> say 'this is the first example of a classroom record player with 33 
>>>>>> speed on it'. Again, for consumer awareness, I'm thinking late '40s. 
>>>>>> Maybe Mike Biel can answer this. (I assume that  players for radio 
>>>>>> stations had 2 speeds from the beginning of the ET era).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> joe salerno
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> But since the slow speed (33 1/3 RPM) was in use as early as 1926 for sync 
>>>>>>> soundtrack discs and radio stations were playing discs of both speeds after 
>>>>>>> 1931 and 33RPM "Program Transcriptions" were marketed by RCA Victor that same 
>>>>>>> year, the answer has to be a lot earlier, even if the general public didn't 
>>>>>>> have reason to refer to "78s" till 1948..even then, the term "standard" 
>>>>>>> remained popular for quite a while. The introduction of the "45" probably 
>>>>>>> heralded the general use of speed designations. Lacquer discs, both studio and 
>>>>>>> for home use, usually had boxes to check "78" and "33" on the labels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Royal Pemberton wrote:
>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> I'd say following the advent of the LP and the 45, so circa 1948/1949.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:34 AM, <L78rpm at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> When, please, were the objects primarily associated with this list  first
>>>>>>>>> called "78s"?   This seems a reasonable question, I believe,  given the
>>>>>>>>> adjustable speed mechanisms on early disc machines, and the suggestion
>>>>>>>>>  that some
>>>>>>>>> brands should be played at 80rpms (or something other than  78).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul Charosh
>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>                   
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