[78-L] 78rpm speed

[Michael Biel]

In 1929 E.C. Raynor's Bureau of Broadcasting advertised comparisons of 
their 16-inch 33 ETs with the other companies' 78s.  I don't know where 
Joe got the 1934 date from except from the introduction of the Presto 
Disc in that year.

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com

David Lennick wrote:
> 33RPM ETs date from at least 1931..I've had several. I think the Philco 
> Symphony Orchestra programs date from 1930 and these are 16-inch, running only 
> 9-10 minutes a side (same length as soundtrack discs).
>
> The ARSC Journals online list a lot of 33RPM discs cut by Victor between 1931 
> and '34, and even 3 discs cut at 16RPM. Educational, promotional, radio use as 
> well as the issued PTs.
>
> dl
>
> neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com wrote:
>   
>> Thanks Mike. Interesting, b'cast tables were 2 speeds from the early 
>> 30s, which pre-dates ETs (1934 I believe, which I would call mid-30s). 
>> Why a 33 speed in the early 30s, assuming you mean 1930-1933? Would 
>> there have been a reason to play a soundtrack on the air?
>>
>> joe salerno
>>
>>
>> Michael Biel wrote:
>>     
>>> Broadcast turntables were dual speed from the early 30s, and there were 
>>> some dual speed tables for home use when the Program Transcription came 
>>> out at that same time, and there were some school use of ETs in the late 
>>> 30 thru the 40s so there were dual speed tables in schools as well.  (I 
>>> have the ETs that were still in my high school when I was on the AV 
>>> squad in the early 60s.  I asked for them as soon as they threw out the 
>>> only 16-inch player!)  But I think the terminology was usually 
>>> "Standard" and either LP or ET, when referring to the Program 
>>> Transcriptions or Electrical Transcriptions.  Of course, short 
>>> recordings were sometimes cut on ETs at 78, so perhaps broadcasters 
>>> would call them "78 ETs".   When the Columbia Lp and the 45 came out, 
>>> this was the first time broadcasters also had to worry about stylus size 
>>> as well as speed, so "microgroove 33s" or "ET 33s"   might have entered 
>>> their lingo.   When Decca started to issue records and albums on all 
>>> three speeds, the number was the designator on the sleeves, on the back 
>>> of the jackets, and in the catalog.  RCA emphasized "45" immediately 
>>> from the very beginning.  They were always called "forty-fives".  They 
>>> could have been called "Standard", "forty-five", and "Long playing", but 
>>> I bet that once RCA ALWAYS used the designation of the speed number, 
>>> that was the clincher for 78, 45, and 33.  In looking thru a lot of 
>>> original publications from the mid 30s to early 40s, I don't recall any 
>>> mention of 78 or 78s.  But as I write my script I will now make careful 
>>> note for you of any time I might see these designations. 
>>>
>>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com 
>>>
>>> neechevoneeznayou at gmail.com wrote:
>>>       
>>>> True, there were other speeds, but did the average home user of 
>>>> phonograph records know about radio transcriptions and movie 
>>>> soundtracks? I doubt that the average record buyer knew that Edison had 
>>>> attempted an LP format at 300 or whateveritwas LPI. I think that most 
>>>> likely, as stated, records were either standard (what we call a "78") or 
>>>> something else, like the early LP attempts, which go back to cylinder 
>>>> days. "Long playing" options would be the variation from the norm, but 
>>>> even this is not correct. Motion pic soundtracks were only, to my 
>>>> knowledge, recorded at 33 1/3, so that was the norm for that format. I 
>>>> believe I've seen some ETs that were produced for classroom use, or 
>>>> maybe could be used for either broadcast or classroom use. Or maybe they 
>>>> repurposed ETs for distribution to classrooms to make more money. Home 
>>>> recordings and ETs would be the place to find different speeds 
>>>> available. So rephrasing the question, when did home players with 2 
>>>> speeds (78 & 33) become common enough to be recognized by the consumer 
>>>> for what they were? Late 40s to my knowledge. When did 33.3 become 
>>>> common enough to be used in classrooms for audio visual presentations 
>>>> (assuming my premise to be correct)? Can someone point to a catalog and 
>>>> say 'this is the first example of a classroom record player with 33 
>>>> speed on it'. Again, for consumer awareness, I'm thinking late '40s. 
>>>> Maybe Mike Biel can answer this. (I assume that  players for radio 
>>>> stations had 2 speeds from the beginning of the ET era).
>>>>
>>>> joe salerno
>>>>
>>>> David Lennick wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>         
>>>>> But since the slow speed (33 1/3 RPM) was in use as early as 1926 for sync 
>>>>> soundtrack discs and radio stations were playing discs of both speeds after 
>>>>> 1931 and 33RPM "Program Transcriptions" were marketed by RCA Victor that same 
>>>>> year, the answer has to be a lot earlier, even if the general public didn't 
>>>>> have reason to refer to "78s" till 1948..even then, the term "standard" 
>>>>> remained popular for quite a while. The introduction of the "45" probably 
>>>>> heralded the general use of speed designations. Lacquer discs, both studio and 
>>>>> for home use, usually had boxes to check "78" and "33" on the labels.
>>>>>
>>>>> dl
>>>>>
>>>>> Royal Pemberton wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>           
>>>>>> I'd say following the advent of the LP and the 45, so circa 1948/1949.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:34 AM, <L78rpm at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> When, please, were the objects primarily associated with this list  first
>>>>>>> called "78s"?   This seems a reasonable question, I believe,  given the
>>>>>>> adjustable speed mechanisms on early disc machines, and the suggestion
>>>>>>>  that some
>>>>>>> brands should be played at 80rpms (or something other than  78).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul Charosh
>>>>>>>