[78-L] Alex Steinweiss article

Mon Dec 28 15:48:31 PST 2009

That's me. Steve Thornton, Seattle, WA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "simmonssomer" <simmonssomer at comcast.net>
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:45:25 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [78-L] Alex Steinweiss article

Who is FNARF?

Al Simmons

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <fnarf at comcast.net>
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [78-L] Alex Steinweiss article

> This is important! While the ramblings of a delightful bunch of old coots 
> is very enjoyable, it's not evidence. People saying "Steinweiss wasn't 
> first" aren't any more reliable than people saying "Steinweiss was first" 
> without some solid documentary proof. Without it, journalists and authors 
> are right to ignore us.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cary Ginell" <soundthink at live.com>
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 11:52:04 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Alex Steinweiss article
>
>
> Liesl Bradner has asked me for permission to print my comments as a 
> letter-to-the-editor, to be published in next Sunday's L.A. Times Calendar 
> edition. She also would like to get a link showing examples of illustrated 
> album design pre-Steinweiss. If anyone has some of the items Mike Biel 
> mentioned and can send me a link or a scan of them, I would appreciate it. 
> My deadline for getting this in is Wednesday. I will need to trim my 
> letter to make it concise. The way it is now, the Times editors would hack 
> my current letter to pieces.
>
> Cary Ginell
>
>> From: mbiel at mbiel.com
>> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:40:08 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Alex Steinweiss article
>>
>> The LA Times has posted my comment with the on-line article.  It would
>> be nice if the paper would publish as a letter Cary's letter and/or
>> mine.  I already have put in similar items on Amazon at the several
>> books about Steinweiss and at several other sites and blogs that have
>> likewise tried to change history thru ignorance.  But they are bloggers
>> and this is supposed to be an LA Times journalist.  But considering what
>> I know about what goes on at the LA Times, I'm not surprised.  My cousin
>> retired from the LA Times a few years ago from much the same position as
>> this writer, and about ten years ago I was not able to convince her to
>> write the TRUTH about the Museum of TV and Radio and she ended up
>> writing the usual puff piece -- although with a little less enthusiasm
>> then was originally planned.
>>
>>
>> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [78-L] Alex Steinweiss article
>> From: Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com>
>> Date: Mon, December 28, 2009 8:48 am
>> To: <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>
>>
>> This is what I sent the writer -
>>
>> Dear Ms. Bradner,
>>
>> I just read with interest your article on Alex Steinweiss, "Father of
>> Album Art" in Sunday's Times. As
>> a member of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections, I
>> participated in an online discussion recently as to how Steinweiss or
>> his representatives at his publisher have been misinforming the public
>> as to his role in the development of album cover art. Although he did
>> revolutionize the art form with his work for Columbia Records, he was
>> by far NOT the first to use artwork on 78 rpm record albums. There have
>> been many instances dating back at least to the 1920s that did this.
>> It's a
>> shame the distortions of Steinweiss's are muddying his reputation as a
>> true pioneer of the art form.
>>
>> Also - to clarify something that
>> you wrote: "At the time, most albums were packaged in plain brown paper
>> sleeves with no lyrics or credits." This makes me wonder how familiar
>> you are with record packaging in those years. Although single 78 rpm
>> releases were issued in brown sleeves, they always had logos for the
>> record company printed on them, usually with some kind of advertisements
>> for other releases. Albums were actually hard cardboard folders with
>> individual pages containing the records - hence the word "album" was
>> invented (today, a CD is still absurdly called an album despite the
>> fact that there are no pages at all). The covers of the albums always
>> had some kind of identification and in many cases, artwork. Inside the
>> album was either a descriptive essay, credits, or song selection
>> listings pasted on the inside front cover. Sometimes there were
>> miniature booklets or other explanatory notes inserted into the album.
>> Your article makes it look like Steinweiss invented all of this
>> single-handedly, which he decidedly did not.
>>
>> Anyway, I suppose
>> any publicity concerning the history of the manufacturing and marketing
>> of 78 rpm records is better than nothing, but I would hope that, as a
>> journalist, you would research more thoroughly your subject, rather than
>> taking as fact what publishers' publicity departments feed you.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Cary Ginell
>> Thousand Oaks
>>
>> > From: mbiel at mbiel.com
>> > To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
>> > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:09:26 -0700
>> > Subject: Re: [78-L] Alex Steinweiss article
>> >
>> > I've just submitted this comment to the on-line comments section of 
>> > this
>> > article using my name, not a handle. No comments have been posted yet,
>> > so this might be the first IF it gets approved. If Cary has written
>> > directly to her, that should be the confirmation of what I have
>> > submitted. If others of you do likewise, that will help. If this does
>> > not appear, you all have been notified that it had been submitted.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Once again the myth that before Steinweiss records were packed in
>> > plain brown wrappers has been bought hook, line, and sinker by a writer
>> > who is not a record collector, and has not done independent research in
>> > an archive or collection. By the time Steinweiss was hired by the newly
>> > reorganized Columbia in 1940, Decca Records had a six year history with
>> > their series of 200 albums with illustrated covers, often with
>> > photographic inside-covers and booklets with extensive notes. There is
>> > a heritage of illustrated album covers dating back before 1910.
>> > Descriptive written notes appeared with all Edison cylinders and discs
>> > starting in 1912. Steinweiss is an inventive and imaginative
>> > illustrator and artist, but he did not invent the concept of 
>> > illustrated
>> > record album covers, he merely convinced HIS company to start competing
>> > with Decca's six year-old series of illustrated covers. His first
>> > cover (C-11 by Richard Rodgers) was not THE first illustrated cover, it
>> > was only HIS first illustrated cover, and the first for the newly
>> > reorganized Columbia."
>> >
>> > Mike Biel mbiel at mbiel.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > From: Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com>
>> >
>> > Well, it won't do any good if you don't write. At least I said 
>> > something
>> > and maybe...MAYBE the writer will do more research the next time. I
>> > write reviews for a local paper and I get very few letters from people.
>> > But when I do, I take notice, unless it's some crackpot from some
>> > obscure organization with a bone to pick....hey, wait. That's me.
>> >
>> > Cary Ginell
>> >
>> > > From: dlennick at sympatico.ca
>> > > Think it'll do any good? I don't. Writers with no frame of reference 
>> > > grab
>> > > whatever they can find, and we've been arguing this matter (as well 
>> > > as
>> > > Steinweiss not being the first to come up with illustrated album 
>> > > covers) as
>> > > long as I've been on this list. I didn't realize Steinweiss was still 
>> > > alive.
>> > > Someone should tell HIM to clarify these matters, don't you think? Or 
>> > > is he
>> > > beyond the point of giving credible interviews?
>> > >
>> > > Here's another example of misinformation becoming permanent. Earlier 
>> > > today I
>> > > was looking for links to a Heritage LP of Alan Jay Lerner songs, 
>> > > since someone
>> > > had said it contained the only uncensored recording of "My Mother's 
>> > > Wedding
>> > > Day" with its original lyrics. It doesn't contain that song, as it 
>> > > happens. But
>> > > every link to that LP that I checked misquoted the catalog number, 
>> > > including
>> > > one that showed the album cover which has the correct number on it, 
>> > > H-0060. One
>> > > person listed it as H-0600 and everyone else copied it. Amazing.
>> > >
>> > > dl
>> > >
>> > > Cary Ginell wrote:
>> > > > The Los Angeles Times-and-Throwaway had another article 
>> > > > perpetuating the myth that Alex Steinweiss "invented" album cover 
>> > > > art. It's plain that the author of the article knew nothing about 
>> > > > the subject, saying that before Steinweiss came along, albums "were 
>> > > > packaged in plain brown paper sleeves with no lyrics or credits." 
>> > > > If we can bombard her with complaints about her article, maybe a 
>> > > > clarification will be printed. Her name is Liesl Bradner and she 
>> > > > can be reached directly at liesl.bradner at latimes.com. Be polite. 
>> > > > She know not what she hath wrought. I've already written to her.
>> > > >
>> > > > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/12/alex-steinweiss-father-of-album-art.html
>> > > >
>> > > > Cary Ginell
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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