[78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^

Wed Dec 23 15:02:47 PST 2009

I have a Sandy Hook LP of Bunny Berigan live remotes and on one track,"Shanghai Shuffle"
Blowers swings but on another tracks,especially up tempo tunes,he tended to plod.The
only time I heard Moe Purtill swing was on Miller's "Little Brown Jug".Aside from that one
recording,I thought Purtill summed it up quite nicely when he said that he would wave his
hair a little more;drink a little but he just couldn't swing anymore.I have a mid forties Decca
78 of "On Moonlight Bay(the only date he did for that label)",recorded in March,1937.Geor-
ge T.Simon played drums on that date and his drumming was just as stiff as Purtill's.I feel
that Miller's stiff personality had alot to do with it.MIller was once quoted as saying "Let's
get a beat going";he never did but the band seemed to swing more when Miller was off the
stand.Catch the mid '50s performance of "Daisy Mae" from 1941.

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, simmonssomer <simmonssomer at comcast.net> wrote:

From: simmonssomer <simmonssomer at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 11:57 AM

Some foremost swing and pre-swing era groovers on the drum kit.
(Temp list...totally incomplete.)
Jo Jones
Johnny Blowers
JimmyCrawford
Buddy Rich
Maurice Purtill (with Norvo only)
Ray McKinley
Dave Tough
Cozy Cole
Ben Pollack
Vic Berton
Baby Dodds (as the fount)

Al Simmons

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "eugene hayhoe" <jazzme48912 at yahoo.com>
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^

I don't believe I've ever heard a record with Elvin Jones on it that didn't 
have very strong grooves, regardless of the personnel, tempo, materials, 
etc. He's not unique in that among post-bebop drummers, but I'm guessing 
there's not much interest in putting together a list like that on this list 
(not that I'm much of a listmaking type anyway). Pullen-Adams-Richmond was 
just the Mingus band w/o Charles (and both were great bands to my mind).

Gene

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com> wrote:

From: Cary Ginell <soundthink at live.com>
Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 11:20 AM

My definition of groove came from something Herbie Mann told me once. The 
"groove" is akin to the waves of the ocean, with his melody line riding on 
top of the waves. It has a lot to do with kinetic energy, perpetual motion, 
which can be achieved through rhythm, riffs, anything that keeps the 
momentum going forward. That's how you can listen to a song like Jimmy 
Smith's "The Champ," which encompasses and entire LP side, and not want it 
to end.

Cary Ginell

> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:15:36 +0000
> From: julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk
> To: 78-l at klickitat.78online.com
> Subject: Re: [78-L] fwd: Marsalis makes the world safe for pure jazz^
>
> Cary Ginell wrote:
> The problem I have with the so-called "free jazz" is that it doesn't
> have the element common to other forms of jazz: a groove. If a Cecil
> Taylor fan can find a groove in his music, more power to him, but I've
> sampled quite a bit of it and just do
> n't care for it. Maybe I'm not "deep." Maybe I can't see the poetry in
> Coltrane's late-career squawks. But that's fine. I won't deny them their
> place in jazz. But I will deny them a place on my shelves. Even so, I
> won't condemn an entire period without cause. That's why I love Eric
> Dolphy and the work he did on Coltrane's "Africa Brass" sessions on
> Impulse. There is some of it that is accessible to someone like me. So I
> keep listening.
>
> Cary Ginell
> =============
> I'm not sure what you mean by "groove", but Taylor's music is not random
> as it may appear to some. Compare his solo on "E.B." (Candid) with a
> solo he plays with Ayler on the Revenant box set. They're virtually
> identical--when I heard the latter I was able to whistle along with it!
>
> I only got to hear "Africa Brass" properly in recent years, and found it
> was a disappointment, in that there is no "punch line" to the
> performance, it just drifts on and on. Regarding his Impulse! quartet
> recordings, I was playing these recently and thought to myself, "this is
> pop music!" They came in the aftermath of his Atlantic "My Favorite
> Things". Something akin to Jonah Jones's "Muted Jazz". And McCoy Tyner's
> piano playing is always a pain in the butt.
>
> I have most of Coltrane's work, but don't necessarily like it all--much
> of it was purchased because it was cheap. Pruning time will come 
> eventually.
>
> Julian Vein
>
>
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