[78-L] Titan transcription, was Getting needled

[Taylor Bowie]

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and ideas about proper stylus for 
my new Titan transcription.  First, some details about the record:

It's 12",  shellac.  Large green label with black printing,  It is not 
vertical,  but plays inside out.  There are three tracks on each side,  but 
they don't flow from one to the next.  You have to bump the tone arm or pick 
it up and move it from the end of one to the start of the next.

Both sides are labeled:  "STUDIO MUSIC IN RHYTHM."  Some prior 
owner/collector has indicated that one side is by the Williams-Walsh 
Orchestra,  and the other by the Beal & Taylor Orchestra.  Collector also 
noted that Clancy Hayes played guitar and sang with Beal & Taylor.  I 
thought that was interesting as I didn't know anything about his activities 
before the Dixie revival stuff in the 40s and 50s.

Here are the label details:

Series R No. 3 [noted as the Beal & Taylor Orch.] Here Come The British / 
Moon Glow / Moon Over My Shoulder.

Series R  No. 4 [noted as Williams-Walsh Orch.]  I Still Do / Object of My 
Affection / Wild Honey.

All six tracks are wonderful...hard to pick out the best of them,  maybe 
Moon Glow on the one side and I Still Do on the other (usually the song is 
credited as "And I Still Do").

The Williams-Walsh tracks are much punchier than the sides they did for 
Decca around the same time...Jim Walsh's distinctive trombone is quite clear 
and he's in a pretty jazzy mode here.

I know nothing about the Beal & Taylor Orch.  Anyone have any info?  It's as 
good a period version of Moon Glow as I've heard.

Thanks again to all from


Taylor




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Biel" <mbiel at mbiel.com>
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [78-L] Getting needled


> From: David Lennick <dlennick at sympatico.ca>
>
>
>> Any chance that it's a vertical cut? It would probably say so on the 
>> label
>> and if you've played a vertical with a 78 stylus in mono you've noticed
>> that you aren't hearing anything but groove noise.
>
> I was thinking that too, bit all of the Titan discs I have seen were
> lateral.  But this is a music library disc so it might indeed be
> different.
>
> Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com
>
>> In stereo you'd get music, out of
> phase. A .7 stylus is actually the best for playing vertical cut
> transcriptions
> (and a phase reversal switch, of course). World and Associated/Muzak
> were
> vertical cut.
>
> dl
>
> Michael Biel wrote:
>> All of the titan pressings I've seen are shellac, but you didn't mention
>> if this one is. I am surprised that it didn't sound OK with your 78
>> stylus but you didn't tell us what your 78 stylus is. I do not know
>> what might be different in size with a yellow shank needle, but a
>> chromium long playing needle is probably a harder chrome steel that will
>> play for a longer time (probably 15 minutes) than a regular needle (5
>> minutes) because 16-inch ETs run for 15 minutes. Since your disc is a
>> library service disc it probably has separate selections rather than one
>> long program, so the longer time needle is not necessarily necessary.
>> Is your disc 12 or 16-inches? Royal is correct that most ETs use a 2.5
>> mil stylus, but the old standard that 78 stylus size is 3.0 mils is not
>> necessarily true. 2.5 truncated is what a lot of people find most
>> usable, and 2.7 is also a popular size, but so is 2.3. If the groove is
>> a true V-shape, an LP needle will also work. Most 78s had their metal
>> negatives polished which removes the bottom of the groove and makes it
>> U-shaped at best, but some ETs purposefully had their grooves left
>> V-shaped. Lacquer cuts will be V-shaped because there never was a metal
>> negative to be polished.
>>
>> By the way, just because a disc has instructions to play with a certain
>> steel or fibre needle does not mean that modern lightweight styli can't
>> be used. They were telling people of that era what to use with their
>> heavy pick-ups, and it is to be assumed that a 21at century collector
>> has more sense than to play a valuable record on ancient heavy arms and
>> steel needles. Junkers, ok, but not a valuable or interesting record
>> like yours.
>>
>> Mike biel mbiel at mbiel.com
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: Royal Pemberton <ampex354 at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Slightly smaller than a 78 stylus....2.5 mil is approximately what
>>> they used with transcriptions. An LP stylus won't harm anything,
>>> it just won't sound very good.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Taylor Bowie <bowiebks at isomedia.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> I just got a 1934 33 1/3 transcription (inside out) on the "Titan 
>>>> Library
>>>> Service" label from San Francisco.
>>>> The label instructs me in no uncertain terms to "Use Chromium Yellow 
>>>> Shank
>>>> Long Playing Needles on this record."
>>>> I've looked all over the house, garage, glove box in the car, etc. and
>>>> I'm fresh out of those things...whatever the hell they are.
>>>> Would it be OK to use a modern LP stylus or will I ruin the olde diske? 
>>>> I
>>>> tried it with the 78 stylus and it sounded crappy although the music is
>>>> fantastic (one side is the legendary Williams-Walsh Hotel Mark Hopkins
>>>> Orch.).
>>>> Any of you techies able to advise me on this?
>>>> Many thanks from Taylor
>>
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