[78-L] stereo ca 1932

[Michael Biel]

From: Dan Van Landingham <danvanlandingham at yahoo.com>
> Getting back to RCA's stereo attempts from the earlier thirties,
> I bought an album of what I thought were 10" 78s.They weren't.
> They were Electrical Transcripts.

No they weren't.  Look at the labels again.  They are called Program
Transcriptions.  That is their official name.  Electrical Transcriptions
are entirely different, they are broadcast recordings.  The Program
Transcriptions had nothing to do with broadcasting, but are very good
finds!

> I remember hearing of a substance called "vitrolac".

Some were pressed in shellac, but there were some that were pressed in
Victrolac, which RCA later admitted was actually the same as Vinylite.


--- On Wed, 7/8/09, DAVID BURNHAM <burnhamd at rogers.com> wrote:


From: DAVID BURNHAM <burnhamd at rogers.com>
> If these tests actually took place, (I'm not saying they didn't,
> I just don't know), 

As I just posted, the recording ledgers indicate the use of two sets of
equipment as evidenced by the two sets of prefixes, LBRC and LBSHQ. 
There's no other possible interpretation.

> it seems probabable that the two mikes would either be placed one behind the other in the centre of the sound stage or one above the other.  If they're comparing the two mikes for sound quality, the comparison is only useful if the mikes are in the same position as closely as possible.  

The mics and the stands are bulky and heavy, and would naturally space
themselves at least two feet apart because they could not be gotten any
closer.  

> Playing the outputs of these two mikes, (or recordings made there-from),
> to a left and right speaker may give a spacial sound but it won't be stereo. 

Brad Kay has put together a seating chart from the aural evidence, and
those set ups are different for the two different recording sessions.
The recordings exist.  Listen to them before dismissing them.

> There has been lots of talk about Toscanini broadcasts being done
> simultaneously from two different interests using their own mikes,
> equipment and recorders.  Many have claimed to take these two
> recordings, allign them and produce a stereo version of the concert. 

MANY have claimed???????  Name ONE person who has made the claim to have
DONE it and found stereo.  I have heard these stories for over 30 years
and have personally talked to the restoration engineers who have
actually worked with the various original masters of the Toscanini
recordings, and although they have tried a few, none of them have ever
come up with any stereo and never claimed to.  I have heard NO CLAIMS
whatsoever.  Tell me who you have actually heard say they have done it. 
Give me a name.

> I haven't heard any of these attempts so I don't know from my
> own knowledge how successful they've been,

I haven't heard them either because as of yet nobody who has worked with
the actual master discs has claimed to have produced stereo from them.

> but particularly with a Toscanini performance there's an easy way to
> tell if your listening to genuine stereo.  AT always had his 1st
> violins on the left and his 2nd violins on the right.  If this
> configuration is evident in the recording than you do indeed
> have stereo, but I know of no pseudo-stereo procedure which
> will retain this configuration.

ON THE OTHER HAND, RCA producer John Pfeiffer DID actually record the
final two Toscanini concerts on tape in two channel stereo.  This is
entirely different from the theory of the different feeds for broadcast
discs, these were actual experimental stereo tapes made by the RCA
producer who also was recording stereo of the other orchestras on RCA's
roster.  These tapes are known, the final concert has been released on
LP and CD and show evidence of the seating that you mention.  When
listening to the broadcast of the final concert there are parts that
become a random mess, but when heard in stereo it becomes clear that at
that point the left and right sides of the orchestra are out of sync
because they are not getting a clear beat.  No, it is not the two
channels getting out of sync because they are on separate media, this
was a 2-track tape on an Ampex 300.  It's the orchestra getting out of
sync.

If you are interested in early RCA Victor stereo there is a great CD set
that give a lot of info and recordings (but not the Toscanini, alas, you
have to go to Music and Arts for that) called The Age of Living Stereo:
A Tribute to John Pfeiffer, RCA Victor 09026-68524-2.

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com