[78-L] The Hill With It...

Tue Apr 14 08:58:23 PDT 2009

OK. I won't extend this subject any further except to say that in my mind 
the different sounds made by a "sweet" band and those made by the  big pre 
and swing era bands from mebbe 1931 and on is unmistakable. The sweet bands 
were loved by the older, more conservative patrons of the dance palaces.
while the more "modern" swing bands sounded like Chinese music to these 
folks and were not favored by them until the tide of the swing bands in, 
let's say ,1937 or so became irresistable and the palladiums had to let them 
in.
It is and was a wide and unbridgeable gulf but each has their loyal and well 
meaning supporters. (-:

Al Simmons

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Taylor Bowie" <bowiebks at isomedia.com>
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:30 AM
Subject: [78-L] The Hill With It...

> I'm not sure if anyone is interested in or recalls my original remark 
> about
> the Hill record in question...in my sloppy way I was trying to say that it
> was played in something akin to a sweet style.  Perhaps,  like most 
> threads,
> my remark was just a point of take-off for other observations,  but...
>
> I didn't say it sounded like Blue Barron.
>
> I didn't say it didn't swing.
>
> I didn't say that Teddy Hill was a "sweet band."
>
> I didn't say there isn't a difference in phrasing between the Hill band 
> and,
> for example,  Eddie Duchin's.
>
> The backing to the Baby Rose Marie record of Say That You Were Teasing Me 
> is
> "sweet" but it's Henderson and it doesn't sound the same as if it had been
> Leonard Joy or Nat Shilkret in the studio.
>
> I am still of the mind that some of you consider the appellation of "sweet
> band" to be something of an insult or an implication of second-rate...is
> that true?
>
> I agree with Yves that the Hill record of  "When Love Knocks At Your 
> Heart"
> is also excellent.
>
> I love the pop tunes on the Hill Bluebirds,  esp. the ones with Bill 
> Dillard
> singing,  e.g. I'm Feelin' Like  A Million,  and The Lady Who Couldn't Be
> Kissed...also the great version of King Porter Stomp with solos by Diz and
> Bob Carroll.
>
> Taylor
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "yves francois" <aprestitine at yahoo.com>
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [78-L] The Hill Darn Thing's For You
>
>
>>
>> Al, I could not agree with you more. Yes the Hill performance (and the
>> other sweet title from the session that I like even more "When Love 
>> Knocks
>> At Your Heart") are different BECAUSE of the phrasing. Yes, black bands
>> played sweet, but, since most of the bands (Eddie Deas, Russell and Sam
>> Wooding, Willie Lewis, Mills Blue Rhythm Band, Lunceford, Webb, Willie
>> Bryant - "I'm Grateful For You" is a great example of a totally sweet
>> record, yet the phrasing is just different, and a nice vocal by Jacques
>> Butler to boot - Leon Abbey, Maceo Jefferson - I could list dozens of
>> bands here, even inc Cliff Jackson's records made under a pseudonym) -
>> regardless if it was recorded here or in Europe - were full of jazz
>> musicians, the phrasing is different. In a top notch band it is very
>> noticeable IMHO, and, sometimes, bands like the Mills Blue Rhythm Band
>> were used as studio bands to back up vocalists as well. Notice that
>> certain white bands that have a larger than
>> average jazz contingency by about 1930 eg Ted Lewis sweeter records from
>> circa 1932, with a Goodman, Dorsey or Long, Brunis and Spanier, or a Ben
>> Pollack or even certain Ray Miller's (from later 1928/9) will also have
>> more "lift" than the sweet bands, due to the jazz contingency, even when
>> not playing "jazz" material.
>> Yves Francois
>>
>> PS I prefer the Hill 1935/6 recordings from the 1937, funny for the first
>> 2 sessions have the same personnel as the 1936 Vocalion's, anyone else
>> feel that way, just curious (I do like the wonderful, yet slightly flawed
>> solo by Frankie Newton on "Where Is The Sun", wished there was at least 
>> 16
>> bars, would have made it a great record, i play it like many Whitemans 
>> for
>> the moment of Bix, Bunny or Teagarden)
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 4/13/09, simmonssomer <simmonssomer at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> From: simmonssomer <simmonssomer at comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [78-L] The Hill Darn Thing's For You
>>> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 9:06 PM
>>> What sets this Teddy Hill performance apart from that of a
>>> "sweet" band is
>>> that every note is consistently played just a fraction
>>> ...behind the beat.
>>> Sweet bands don't/can't play that way. It's one
>>> of those subtle trademarks
>>> of the realy good swing era, jazz inflected bands.
>>> There's more solid brass in the melody statement than
>>> in the usual "sweet'
>>> band which  likes to deliver muted triple tongue effects,
>>> soppy tenor lead
>>> exposition,
>>> novelty sounds like "tick-tock" or slurping
>>> champagne through a bubbly
>>> straw. Admittedly bands like Anson Weeks didn't stoop
>>> to these effects but
>>> his ensemble sound left a whole lot to be desired. Check
>>> Dick Jurgens to see
>>> how it should be done by a "sweet" band..
>>> Although the Hill performance is subdued  it has the same
>>> rhythmic
>>> philosophy as did the Lunceford band which was not a
>>> "hot" band as such,
>>> but had a relaxed tempo that swung like mad.
>>>
>>> Al S,
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Taylor Bowie"
>>> <bowiebks at isomedia.com>
>>> To: "78-L Mail List"
>>> <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:56 PM
>>> Subject: [78-L] The Hill Darn Thing's For You
>>>
>>>
>>> > Al is right...it's all in the sound...but (to
>>> return to the original
>>> > record
>>> > which started this discussion) I think the sound of
>>> the Teddy Hill record
>>> > of
>>> > Got Me Doin' Things IS a  "sweet band"
>>> sound.
>>> >
>>> > In my dictionary,  a sweet band or a sweet band
>>> arrangement is not a
>>> > pejorative description,  and the band does not have to
>>> be playing in the
>>> > style of the more "over the top" sorts of
>>> groups like Blue Barron or Ray
>>> > Pearl.
>>> >
>>> > Something bouncy and peppy,  and even with an
>>> occasional lightly jazzy
>>> > solo,
>>> > can still qualify as a "sweet band" style
>>> performance.  Many of the Anson
>>> > Weeks records could be described that way,  as well as
>>> those of Freddy
>>> > Martin esp. in the 30s.  And I think that's the
>>> "category" of this
>>> > particular record,  not that we need to put it or
>>> anything else into a
>>> > category in order to enjoy.
>>> >
>>> > Taylor
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> > From: "simmonssomer"
>>> <simmonssomer at comcast.net>
>>> > To: "78-L Mail List"
>>> <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>>> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:27 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [78-L] Good post from fnarf
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Jeff  et al...I am aware that the black( and
>>> white) bands played waltzes
>>> >> and
>>> >> novelty numbers...but that did not make them
>>> "sweet" bands.
>>> >>
>>> >> You see folks...it's all in the sound...not
>>> the type of songs.
>>> >>
>>> >> Al S.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 78-L mailing list
>> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
>> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 78-L mailing list
> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.56/2058 - Release Date: 04/14/09 
06:17:00