[78-L] Good post from fnarf

Mon Apr 13 06:10:55 PDT 2009

Al,

While you are certainly correct, I was only pointing out information that,
quite frankly, many historians of the era do not write about. James Maher,
whom I had the pleasure of knowing for many years, heard Ellington in Ohio
in 1928, and heard bands like Lunceford's before they became national
attractions. For years he would point out at Institute of Jazz Studies
Roundtable presentations that we could not get a full picture of the black
bands because much of what they played on the job, even during the times of
their greatest popularity, was music that the labels wouldn't allow them to
record. The fact that even Benny Goodman had waltzes in his book proves the
point. There was always someone who would request a waltz somewhere, and
bandleaders were expected to comply.

In 1972, Sy Oliver told me in no uncertain terms that Lunceford was very
proud of the way his band could play waltzes, and as long as he was a member
of the band, they were played when requested.

By the way, James was one of the casualties of the Ken Burns series. Burns
interviewed him for hours and then used about five minutes of footage.
Whatever he said is hopefully safe, as he had many stories to tell. He knew
just about everybody in the music business during the forties and fifties; I
was able to meet George Simon thanks to James, and thanked him for his book.

Jeff Sultanof

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:14 AM, simmonssomer <simmonssomer at comcast.net>wrote:

> I'm afraid we hear differently and that our musical sensibility differs
> vastly.
> We all march to our own drummers.
>
> Al S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Sultanof" <jeffsultanof at gmail.com>
> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [78-L] Good post from fnarf
>
>
> > Many Black bands could play like the sweet bands of the era. Students are
> > often surprised when I tell them that black bands could play waltzes and
> > tangos if they were requested - and they were! Sy Oliver told me that
> > there
> > were many waltzes in the Lunceford book, and big band historian Jim Maher
> > was repeatedly reminding us that ANY band that could not play any type of
> > music was a rare occurence. So the fact that a black band like Hill's
> > could
> > sound like a white sweet band is hardly news. Armstrong and Hampton are
> on
> > record that they loved the Lombardo band.
> >
> > Record labels were not exactly going to waste their shellac on Lunceford
> > playing a tango, and even Benny Goodman only recorded one waltz during
> his
> > big band years.
> >
> > Jeff Sultanof
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Taylor Bowie <bowiebks at isomedia.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Al,
> >>
> >> My point was that the Hill performance is in the style of many sweet
> >> bands
> >> of the era,  and better than many,  including much of the output of the
> >> bands you mention.  Also that there are not very many recordings of
> black
> >> bands of the era that are so close to standard pop stuff.
> >>
> >> Taylor
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "simmonssomer" <simmonssomer at comcast.net>
> >> To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 3:31 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [78-L] Good post from fnarf
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Julian Vein" <julianvein at blueyonder.co.uk>
> >> > To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
> >> > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:08 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [78-L] Good post from fnarf
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Taylor Bowie wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> One of my favorite mid-30s "sweet band" records is the Teddy Hill
> >> >>> Orch.
> >> >>> version of Got Me Doin' Things,  with clipped muted brass,
> >> >>> hotel-band
> >> >>> tenor
> >> >>> sax (by Chu Berry!?!?!),  and a wonderful "business man's bounce"
> >> >>> from
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> rhythm section.   And a totally wonderful "sweet band" vocal from
> >> >>> trumpeter
> >> >>> Bill Dillard...I love his singing.  A great record by any measure,
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> it
> >> >>> makes me wish that other black bands had gotten more of a chance to
> >> >>> record
> >> >>> this kind of pop commercial arrangement...I'm sure they played them
> >> >>> at
> >> >>> live
> >> >>> gigs.
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Taylor
> >> >> --------------------------
> >> >> That performance sounds more like Will Osborne to me. And didn't
> Berry
> >> >> admire Freddy Martin?
> >> >>
> >> >>      Julian Vein
> >> >
> >> > Hmmm. admittedly these distinctions (sweet or hot) are subjective, and
> >> > although the performance in question is not precisely "hot' ,...it is
> >> not,
> >> > in my opinion, anything close to  something played by a "sweet" or
> >> "hotel"
> >> > band. Hill had a swinging big band with a full and well articulated
> >> > brass
> >> > section and good reeds.
> >> > Bill Dillard's vocal was no more "sweet" than thousands of
> >> run-of-the-mill
> >> > swing era big band vocals, By the mid and late thirties the "sounds'
> >> > made
> >> > by
> >> > Guy Lombardo or Blue Baron and Tommy Tucker were those made by sweet
> >> > bands.
> >> > If you play a Teddy Hill record and compare to those bands I think
> >> > you'll
> >> > gratefully  hear one hell of a difference.
> >> >
> >> > Al Simmons
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >>
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