[78-L] You never answered Chris Zwarg's question

[Tom]

Here's one of the things Chris said during our initial exchange about this subject: << What is obvious *musically* is that the composers of "coon songs" are usually trying to imitate Afro-American musical styles - mainly spirituals and ragtime - so these must have had *positive* connotations with their audience, if only as "exotic" spices to liven up the usual diet of romantic ballads and marching tunes. >>
 
Now, do you seriously believe that the coon songs were primarily works of art that originated to "try to imitate Afro-American musical styles"?
 
Here are some of the lyrics of one of them, titled "Gimme Ma Money":
 
-------------------------------------
 
Last night I did go to a big Crap game,
How dem coons did gamble wuz a sin and a shame...
I'm gambling for my Sadie,
Cause she's my lady,
I'm a hustling coon, ... dat's just what I am
 
-------------------------------------
 
Okie dokie. And the positive connotations are ... ?
 
And by the way, "De Camptown Races" in an inherently racist piece of swill, as pointed out previously.
 


--- On Fri, 1/23/09, Jess McLean2 <jessmclean2 at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Jess McLean2 <jessmclean2 at verizon.net>
Subject: [78-L] You never answered Chris Zwarg's question
To: "78 List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:58 PM

OK-

You never answered Chris Zwarg's question - a request to show what backs up
your position concerning the Foster songs.  

I have a question for you. Tell me WHO/WHAT race-religion-ethnicity DOSE NOT
GET STEREOTYPED regularly, by comics, music, shows, and plain old walk-around
folks? I believe that no group of people or location in the country can claim
innocence in these matters.

I have heard that "the north loves the blacks as a race but hates them as
individuals and the south loves them as individuals and hates them as a
race." I would bet that some of the comments and individuals replying would
fit this description pretty well.

The fact of the matter - I have often been "put down" for my accent,
for the location where I grew up and my ethnic background, but it means nothing
as it is more a measure of the speaker than of me. There are numerous replies to
the initial message who put themselves in that category by their replies. A lot
of the replies on this subject are by the sanctimonious ones who [as usual]
"...see the spec in another's eye and can't see the one in his
own."

I have regularly seen snide comments on this list which are "put
downs" for the president and religions and even countries along with other
comments touting their own ethnicity/race/religion/culture - but that's all
ok because its from the one in the "in crowd." Most all of them are
gratuitous, but no one says anything until  one comes up with what
"you" consider in your opinion"bad." So then all the
judgmental stuff starts.

Many of the replies have been of the form of   "I'm always right and
wonderful and I'm gonna tell you what you are." ... BS! 

There are a lots of really smart people on this list - and they should start
using their smarts to ignore those things of no great moment. 

My 2 cents.

Jess McLean





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jess McLean2 
  To: 0 AA Me 
  Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:31 PM


  Message: 6
  Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:54:15 -0800 (PST)
  From: Tom <nice_guy_with_an_mba at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Re: [78-L] Stephen Foster
  To: 78-L Mail List <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
  Message-ID: <177274.84036.qm at web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  ?
  This song clearly and unequivocally mimicks the speech patterns of African
Americans in a pejorative manner, as I think you know.
  ?
  So what is gained, culturally, by this kind of stereotyping? And what is
achieved artistically by perpetuating the stereotype of African Americans as
shiftless and?inarticulate, but happy-go-lucky, people who indulge in the
zero-sum game of betting on horse races?
  ?
  Actually, make that the less-than-zero-sum game of betting on horse races
since the house has to be paid.
  ?
  Does it, perhaps, serve to nurture and perpetuate stereotypes that are
advantageous to the white power structure of the time, suggesting that African
Americans aren't responsible enough to take care of themselves since they
rely on gambling rather than work to get by and must, therefore, be taken care
of by a paternalistic system of slavery?
  ?
  << ... I find nothing ugly or dislikeable about the characters or the
events recounted in this song, nor anything that would induce any negative or
aggressive emotion ... >>
  ?
  Yeah, I understand that. But then, you're the guy who referred to
President Obama the other day as "your n*gger president" so it's
fair to say you're not in a great position from which to speak with
convincing moral authority on this issue.
  ?
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