[78-L] Stephen Foster

[David Lennick]

Elderly Man River,
That Elderly Man River,
He must know something
But he doesn't say anything.

--Kern-Hammerstein II-Freberg

dl

Chris Zwarg wrote:
> At 23:07 23.01.2009, you wrote:
>> Chris Zwarg:
>>
>>> First of all, there is NOT ONE WORD in the whole lyrics that says anything about 
>>> the ethnicity of either the singer nor the ladies, nor about the moral or mental 
>>> qualities of either
>> You know, you completely blow your credibility when you suggest that these lyrics are not specifically black, and specifically demeaning. They are. No one who heard them then was in any doubt. "Gwine" is all you need to see.
>>
>> You don't understand this music as well as you think you do, or you're pretending. 
>>
>> -- 
>> Steve
> 
> I did say that I assume the spellings to indicate a thick stage dialect. OK you say it *must* be Black that's meant, and I bow to superior knowledge. Fine with me! As I further said, there is NOTHING UNSYMPATHETIC about the fellow who is speaking said dialect, neither his behaviour nor what he recounts has happened to him. Everybody except maybe some highbrow phoneticians à la Henry Higgins speaks some kind of dialect, so what? No reason for anyone to call him inferior - if I were writing English as I speak (due to lack of practice) jou vould notiss I haff a werri streenge dialeckt az vell! And so does the Turkish grocer across the road from my place when he attempts German, and yet he's a fine fellow. An racist audience predisposed to judging people by their dialect would of course find reason for ridicule in a singer pronouncing the way Foster spells, but that's purely *in the eye of the beholder* and not an inherent quality of the song (which I was asked to say somethin
g about), for me, the dialect used is comical but certainly not demeaning. If you find it demeaning you should think again about your own apparently condescending attitude about non-standard English speakers!! 
> 
> In other words, if Foster (or his publisher) had chosen to spell the lyrics:
> 
> "The Camptown ladies sing this song / The Camptown race-track's five miles long / I came down there with my hat caved in / I go back home with a pocketful of tin / etc."
> 
> you would have to change your verdict of the song being racist and demeaning? This is the most preposterous argument I have ever seen to weasel out of a lost case....
> 
> The *dialect*, ohmygawd! How stupid is that?! Peter Dawson recorded "Ol(d) Man River" and "Old folks at home" in the clearest and most articulate Edwardian British English you could wish for, I assume these renditions are inoffensive to you then, due to his utterly crisp pronunciation of "n****r" and "darkies" without a hint of the throatiness Foster requires for his character?!
> 
> It slowly dawns on me that all this discussion is a giant hoax at my expense, after I put my foot in yesterday by stupidly calling your new President a wrong name. I must say: Gentlemen, you almost convinced me you were serious, and was beginning to worry my perceptions might actually be misadjusted. You're REALLY GOOD actors, my congratulations! But now I must say I have wasted enough time on this pillow fight (worthy to be rewritten as a minstrel show dialogue some day), the joke is getting stale, and I'm getting back to work now. See you on April 1st!
> 
> Chris Zwarg 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 78-L mailing list
> 78-L at klickitat.78online.com
> http://klickitat.78online.com/mailman/listinfo/78-l
> 
> 
>