[78-L] Stephen Foster

Fri Jan 23 13:54:15 PST 2009

This song clearly and unequivocally mimicks the speech patterns of African Americans in a pejorative manner, as I think you know.

So what is gained, culturally, by this kind of stereotyping? And what is achieved artistically by perpetuating the stereotype of African Americans as shiftless and inarticulate, but happy-go-lucky, people who indulge in the zero-sum game of betting on horse races?

Actually, make that the less-than-zero-sum game of betting on horse races since the house has to be paid.

Does it, perhaps, serve to nurture and perpetuate stereotypes that are advantageous to the white power structure of the time, suggesting that African Americans aren't responsible enough to take care of themselves since they rely on gambling rather than work to get by and must, therefore, be taken care of by a paternalistic system of slavery?

<< ... I find nothing ugly or dislikeable about the characters or the events recounted in this song, nor anything that would induce any negative or aggressive emotion ... >>

Yeah, I understand that. But then, you're the guy who referred to President Obama the other day as "your n*gger president" so it's fair to say you're not in a great position from which to speak with convincing moral authority on this issue.

--- On Fri, 1/23/09, Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de> wrote:

From: Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de>
Subject: Re: [78-L] Stephen Foster
To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 4:08 PM

At 21:25 23.01.2009, you wrote:
>Gee, it's written in dialect, a common practice.  The guy didn't
have much
>and bet the horses.  I'm not sure if going home with a pocket full of
tin
>meant that he won a little or a lot.  I'd have to see what tin meant at
the
>time.
>
>Ron L
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: 78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com
>[mailto:78-l-bounces at klickitat.78online.com] On Behalf Of Tom
>Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:10 PM
>To: 78-L Mail List
>Subject: Re: [78-L] Stephen Foster
>
>Alrighty, well since you asked for it, here it is. And I'd like an
answer to
>my previous question which you'll find at the end of this quoted
section:

Here you are:

First of all, there is NOT ONE WORD in the whole lyrics that says anything
about the ethnicity of either the singer nor the ladies, nor about the moral or
mental qualities of either, least of all in contrast to White people (who, like
Blacks, are not mentioned at all, nor is there any hint of a
"judgment" pro or contra any of the characters excepting one horse
that wins and others that lose). The lyrics describe a race (like in
"running" not in "racism") of HORSES (not humans) of various
colours and characteristics, and the main character is a lucky fellow who has
won at that race and now recounts the experience. The spelling seems to intend
some kind of thick accent that the author probably intends to be done in an
exaggerated fashion for comic effect on stage (like Pepe the Pew's
"French" or Chico Marx' "Italian" accents - are these
racist and denigrating too in your opinion?). At no point, anything but the
winner's joy about the victory of the "bob-tail nag" (on which the

 singer had bet his money) after overcoming several bizarre and comic obstacles
is described.

No matter how I try to contort my imagination, I find nothing ugly or
dislikeable about the characters or the events recounted in this song, nor
anything that would induce any negative or aggressive emotion; if you are a
radical Calvinist who thinks betting on horses for money a mortal sin you might
think differently about that, but then this is a "sin" indulged in by
people of many nations and ethnic backgrounds. The "hero" is neither
stupid (after all he picked the right horse and won more money than he can carry
in his pockets) nor dishonest (the horse won honestly against all odds) nor
"inferior" (to whom? the horses? the ladies who "sing the
song" and don't take any further part in the proceedings described?
There is no other character mentioned who might be superior to the lucky
winner!). 

The only criticism one might well level at the song is that it is banal, but
that's an argument against the writer (who we agree was a White man so this
cannot show Black inferiority either), and even this banality might well be
intentional in what is obviously a folksong imitation, down to the incongruous
beginning with the eponymous Ladies that are never mentioned again (in a fashion
often find in very old traditionals whose words were already half-forgotten when
they were first written down), and the repeated "doo-dah" chorus
evoking the typical collective replies in a shanty or work-song.

A "genre" song? Yes! A "racist" song? Except for the
excruciatingly bad pun on "horse-racing" you night have intended to
fool me - no!

Chris Zwarg

> 
>-------------------------------------------------
> 
>De Camptown Races, by Stephen Foster (aka Gwine To Run All Night)
> 
>De Camptown ladies sing dis song, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>De Camptown race-track five miles long, Oh, doo-dah day!
>I come down dah wid my hat caved in, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>I go back home wid a pocket full of tin, Oh, doo-dah day!
> 
>Gwine to run all night!
>Gwine to run all day!
>I'll bet my money on de bob-tail nag,
>Somebody bet on de bay.
> 
>De long tail filly and de big black hoss, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>Dey fly de track and dey both cut across, Oh, doo-dah-day!
>De blind hoss sticken in a big mud hole, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>Can't touch bottom wid a ten foot pole, Oh, doo-dah-day!
> 
>Chorus
> 
>Old muley cow come on to de track, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>De bob-tail fling her ober his back, Oh, doo-dah-day!
>Den fly along like a rail-road car, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>Runnin' a race wid a shootin' star, Oh, doo-dah-day!
> 
>Chorus
> 
>See dem flyin' on a ten mile heat, Doo-dah doo-dah!
>Round de race track, den repeat, Oh, doo-dah-day!
>I win my money on de bob-tail nag, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
>I keep my money in an old tow-bag, Oh, doo-dah-day!
> 
>Chorus
> 
>-------------------------------------------------
> 
>So, again, here's the question:
> 
>What is it, exactly, about American art forms that depict African-Americans
>in the most demeaning, pejorative, and degrading light possible that you
>guys find redeeming and worthwhile?
>
>TIA
>
>
>--- On Fri, 1/23/09, Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de>
wrote:
>
>From: Chris Zwarg <doctordisc at truesoundtransfers.de>
>Subject: Re: [78-L] Stephen Foster
>To: "78-L Mail List" <78-l at klickitat.78online.com>
>Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 2:46 PM
>
>At 20:17 23.01.2009, you wrote:
>>Tom wrote:
>>
>>Stephen Foster) who made a career of sorts, by depicting
African-Americans
>as wide-eyed, lustful, disorganized, ignorant and inferior to whites.
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>Maybe you  know different Foster songs than I do but I can't think
of
>one Foster lyric which is guilty of this observation.  In my experience,
>Foster
>always depicted blacks as hard working, God fearing, family devoted,
honest,
>fun-loving people.
>
>I have already asked Tom in an earlier posting to quote actual examples
that
>prove his extravagant claim. Let's see what he comes up with - no
answer
>will be just as illuminating than any other in this case! I'd venture a
bet
>he not only will not be able and willing to quote any such Foster (or for
>that
>matter "coon song") lyric, but he has never actually listened
closely
>to any such songs, which by Oscar Wilde's definition naturally makes
him the
>ideal person to talk about the subject...!
>
>Chris Zwarg
>
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