[78-L] Speed for old Edison, and Victor 78s

[Michael Biel]

Ken Matheson wrote:
>>     Can anyone tell me the record speed of a couple of old 78s. Two are Edison (recorded both sides ¼ inch thick) The Church in the Wildwood, matrix number 5126-C-7, or 80416-R, and Christmas Bells, matrix number 6911-C-71, or 50591-L. And Victor (recorded one side, about normal thickness) with a sticker stating price of 60 cents, and dated 1906, Way Down South, matrix number B589, or 2562. Thank you.
>>     
Royal Pemberton wrote

> Those Edisons will be 80 rpm; the Victor most likely
> somewhere between 74 and 76 1/2 rpm.


But Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. wrote:

  

> I think the Edisons are 80 RPM. The Victor should be 78.
>
>   
Who is right?  Royal Pemberton is.   So, Ken and especially Mark are probably wondering why, because Victor advertised their speed as 78.  It has been discussed here many times that almost all investigations on the speed of acoustical classical and operatic Victor records -- where the musical keys are generally definitively accurate -- show that rarely were acoustical Victors recorded as high as 78.  Most were in the 76 and 75 area.  For example, in Caruso's entire career at Victor, I think that there are only four recording sessions that measure out at 78.  Even more important is the one session that was done at 80 -- but the labels state that the record should be played at 82!!!!!  Why did the then tell us that the records were 78, and occasionally tell us that the person who adjusts the speed differently for each record is wrong?  And for that matter, why did Columbia state their speed is 80, yet investigations show most were recorded at 77 or 78?  There is no definative answer, but George Brock-Nannestad believes that acoustic playback at a faster speed reduces record wear caused by resonating horn resonances of the recording and reproducing horns.  And also, the records sound a little brighter played back sharp.  



As for Edisons, they are generally reliably 80, but there are some 
occasional doubts.  For example, Joe Pengelly did a comparison of a 1928 
or 29 Edison lateral electric and the simultaneously recorded Diamond 
Disc and cylinder that was dubbed from the Diamond Disc.  They do not 
match if the cylinder is played at 160, the Diamond Disc at 80, and the 
lateral disc at 78.26 which were the advertised speeds.  He put together 
a chart that he presented at ARSC, and I think was published in the ARSC 
Journal,  that shows what speed the other two must be played at to match 
if the third one is played at the advertised speed.  Remember that 
almost all cylinders were dubbed off of Diamond Discs after the factory 
fire in mid-1914. 


Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. also wrote:

> The Edisons will not play on a regular phonograph, as the undulations
> in the grooves go up and down rather than side to side.


We assume here that people do not usually play their records on old 
acoustical machines because that is not listening to the record but 
rather is really only listening to the machine.  (That is OK because it 
is fun to do, but is not the way to seriously listen to records.)   Also 
assumed is that most electrical turntables being used by collectors have 
a stereo cartridge.  It is an easy matter to play a vertical record with 
a stereo cartridge by reversing the hot and ground of ONE of the 
channels and combining them.

Mike Biel  mbiel at mbiel.com