[78-L] Goodman/Shaw, was Re: no-noTo: "'78-L Mail List'"

[David Lewis]

Howard wrote:

I believe anyone who ever played the clarinet will agree Shaw's "Concerto" is a pastiche of trivial, flashy, and easy to play figures designed for audiences impressed by superficial display. And Goodman could out swing Shaw anytime.

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I've played a little clarinet, not like Shaw or Goodman, mind you -- my mother is a much better player than me. I think we would both agree that the Shaw Concerto is very nice, a little underpowered in some ways but still a notable milestone and a very early "jazz concerto." I have wondered how much the score changed between its premiere in 1934 and the recording, not made until 1939. It sounds contemporary to 1939 and I suspect the score was updated some, which makes me wonder what the original was like.

Goodman and Shaw - in terms of "swinging"? Jeez, it depends on the material in either case. Shaw's take on "Lady Be Good" kicks the hell out of any version Goodman did, but Goodman hated that song. Still they didn't call Benny the "King of Swing" for nuthin. I'll name one track, "Peckin' " a Harry James tune from the collection of Bill Savory airchecks that CBS issued as "Jazz Concert No. 2" and later "The King of Swing." There are so many worthy examples. And I don't think Shaw, innovative as he was, would have ever sat down to jam with Bela Bartok.

Tim Huskisson wrote:
I believe Shaw had a greater understanding of harmony. Shaw continued todevelop while Goodman was playing more or less the same way in his '50s Bebop experiments as he had been playing in the '30s. Goodman clearly didn't grasp the new alternate chord progressions of modern jazz, and his approach to improvising remained the same till the end of his life. Shaw, incontrast, set new standards on his last 'Gramercy 5' sessions, producingsome of the most adventurous solos ever heard on a clarinet up until this point.  

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Goodman could really improvise with the best of them -- one of the most amazing aspects of his work with Charlie Christian is that he's just as good as, well, Charlie Christian. I have idolized and loved both Shaw and Goodman since I was 8 or 9 years old; saw Benny in concert in 1976. I have never thought to compare them my whole life, and now that I try, I really can't. Shaw, to me, is like this wispy little sound that got wispier and quieter until it vanished into space, whereas Goodman is like a man on a search for the perfect reed. That's as close as I can come to comparing them. Not a very useful contribution, I'm afraid.


Uncle Dave Lewis
uncledavelewis at hotmail.com

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